Will black lives ever matter?

[RockLock]

So another killing of a black man Ahmaud Arbery by 2 white men (Father and son) in US. They nearly got away with it calling it a citizen arrest and self defence. Father was a retired policeman.

They followed him, armed with guns and shot him.

Prosecutors tried to cover it up until the video emerged.
Ahmaud’s crime? He was going for a jog.

Will black lives ever matter?

Xenia, you obviously don’t understand law.

Presumption of innocence is a legal principle that only applies within an actual court of law; it was created to enshrine in law one’s legal right to a fair trial. Presumption of innocence does not legally apply in many areas outside of courts, and there are specific exceptions where courts can overrule it within the legal system.

For example, police cannot act according to presumption of innocence; if they have a suspect then the entire process of evidence-gathering is predicated on the theory that person is guilty. When CPS decide to bring charges, it’s certainly with the presumption that those charges will result in a conviction, ie presumption of guilt.

If you work in a safeguarding role and have an employee who has been arrested or charges for child sexual offences, you would be in breach not to act - certainly you would not invoke presumption of innocence there!

Law courts can ignore presumption of innocence in certain terrorism cases.

One thing presumption of innocence absolutely does not and was never intended to cover is public opinion. And it certainly doesn’t mean that a person actually IS innocent — it’s not like suspects/arrestees/people on charges awaiting trial exist in some kind of Schrodingers Jail Cell where they are both simultaneously innocent and guilty but you can’t find out which until verdict. If someone committed the crime they are 100% guilty, period - conviction or lack of doesn’t change that.

@hollybon2 you're embarrassing yourself

NRTFT but heck some of the responses are awful.
Fuck all lives matter.. this isnt about ALL lives - it's about a young black man who was murdered for being black, just like others before him.

Also I dont believe the bullshit of you have to be black to understand the prejudice, that's a poor excuse. You dont have to be gay to believe in LGBT rights, you dont have to be Jewish to stand against anti-semitism and you certainly dont have to be BME to see the ingrained racism and know when to call out white privilege.

Yanbu OP but sadly, no I dont think they ever will - some of the responses on here already show that.

Genuine my arse, wtf is wrong with you? Black lives matter isn't about white crime. It's not about you. You are not the victim because you feel targeted by wording indicating that black people are the victims when they get killed for being black

I think you misunderstood my post (although I'm not sure really, how since it was really a very short and simple one). Go back and read my other posts on this thread if you're unsure.

"not really sure how", that should have said.

Laughing at some of the responses here

Disproportionate force against black people happens here too.

twitter.com/essmurph/status/1258556377364140032?s=21

apple.news/AFf8f5F8dTOCHNUGK5wKjCQ

Oh dear Kitty. Look into the FBI hate crime reporting process. Their statistics only reflect the data from the 30 States that have hate crime laws AND require the filing of reports of hate crimes to the FBI at the federal level. 20 states and all the territories either don’t have hate crime laws or have them, but don’t report them to the FBI. If you look at the map, it’s very obvious that the Deep South states where hate crimes against black people are most prevalent are states that don’t report hate crimes to the FBI

Oh my Plan. You can’t hide behind incomplete statistics when hate crime can be prosecuted at a federal level. Especially with something as serious as murder.

Your stats wouldn’t even support your assertion: as 234 black people are murdered by whites in 2018, it still wouldn’t come close to the literal thousands you asserted in a previous post.

Also I dont believe the bullshit of you have to be black to understand the prejudice, that's a poor excuse. You dont have to be gay to believe in LGBT rights, you dont have to be Jewish to stand against anti-semitism and you certainly dont have to be BME to see the ingrained racism and know when to call out white privilege.

This!

Xenia, you obviously don’t understand law
That’ll land well

The percentage of blacks killing other blacks which was posted

From a white supremacist website, @hollybon2

YANBU. Cba to trawl through fifteen extra pages of shite but judging by the first few responses then the answer to your question is no, they don't.

There could be absolutely no racism in the world but there will ALWAYS be people throwing the word around.
And snowflakes? Really?!?

A young man was targeted, followed and killed in cold blood and you whinge about snowflakes?
And that people are playing the "racism" card?

But then we'll never know will we? Since we'll never be absolutely racism free because of posters like you and others.

Delighted to see that HQ deleted the false, white supremacist propaganda, even if @hollybon2 still feels its appropriate to draw conclusions from it.

memememoi

I don’t deny that racism is very real and affect the lives of all African Americans. However, I am saying that murders by whites are so ridiculously small and remote that it’s just not a big problem.

That said, I do believe the attitude and method of policing towards the AA community by law enforcement is awful and I do believe that needs to be fixed. I do not support Blue Lives at all here.

The murder of Ahmaud is tragic and does sound fueled by racist beliefs. But I do not believe it is part of a larger trend. That is my point. I hope his family see justice.

@Rocklock You Ok?

I am stunned by that video plus the one of the young black doctor filling up his van outside his house who was questioned and cuffed.

This seems to be getting worse not better.

Between this thread, the Karen thread and all the trans threads I think I’m officially done with mumsnet now.

Amazes me that some of you cannot actually fathom black lives actually mattering as a given right rather than a political group/movement.

@Swooningmonkey bloody hell that vid!

Would be interesting to hear what those of you who "can't be racist" cos you're having curry/Chinese/jerk rice for dinner tonight make of this footage

Thank you for that @HavartitoMeetYou
I didn't know that about the innocent until proven thing

I thought @Xenia was supposed to be a lawyer, because she always comes in here boasting about her and her daughters' law careers and how much money she makes, how much tax she pays.

Now I know she's a troll 😂😂😂

I haven't read the full thread but the first page alone wasn't a suprise. Mumsnet is very much ignorant of racisim and white posters refuse to accept its an issue. Very much a "not in my backyard" mentally. It's sad and makes me very angry as it is actually one of the main reasons rascism still exists. Go and educate yourself and fuck off with the "all lives matter" bullshit.

Do people realise that black on black violence is at least in part influenced by poverty and lack of opportunity, heavily influenced by racist attitudes and policies?

It's not all that long ago that black people in some American states had to walk on the other side of the road and use different entrances (if they were even allowed in the building).

It takes generations to recover from that, and the effects of those attitudes are still widespread.

I am wondering about the racist mumsnetters who have voted that I am being unreasonable asking the question about the value of a black life. Are they just hard of thinking or just your average white supremacist?

It's not all that long ago that black people in some American states had to walk on the other side of the road and use different entrances (if they were even allowed in the building).

Let's put it this way. It's a lot more recent than VE Day.

I think the latter, RockLock.

Mumsnet is very much ignorant of racisim and white posters refuse to accept its an issue.

I'm white, I accept and acknowledge it and shout it down when I can . I can't "feel" it because I'm not BAME , but I also recognise how privileged I am that despite the fact that I'm from a country that people are quite xenophobic about, I'm safe because I'm white. There's no indication that I'm different unless I open my mouth, and even then because of pure chance I don't sound stereotypically x.

BAME people don't have that option, don't have that safety net. They can be spotted and targeted straight away and there's fuck all they can do about it.