How many hours can a single parent realistically work now?

[firstmentat]

Just interested in people's opinions. What do you think is a realistic number of productive hours per week a person can work during the lockdown in the circumstances below? An expectation of full time hours is probably unrealistic, but how much is reasonable to expect? Trying to manage my expectations re work productivity.

If there are suggestions of a tried-and-tested timetable, I would be really grateful.

• Single parent (the other parent is not involved);
• Two children, 4 and 6;
• Not a key worker (so children at home);
• Desk job (similar to data analysis / software development);
• Some light managerial / supervisory duties;

Thank you all!

The person I manage in this situation is contracted for 24 hours over 3 days. I think she is probably managing 15 hours over 5 days (around 3 hours a day). I think she's doing quite well considering the situation.

I think employees will remember how they were treated in this situation.

The key for me is keeping my business going.As otherwise none of my employees will have a job,including me. I will come and go as much as I can,but I can't pay full time salaries for part time work indefinitely
That is just a fact
I can't imagine many employers in the private sector can

I can't pay full time salaries for part time work indefinitely ... That is just a fact ... I can't imagine many employers in the private sector can

I’m not disagreeing with your position.

However we need to have some honest conversations about the implications for single parents. If they simply cannot work in the current situation, then this must be acknowledged and they need to be supported.

@LaurieMarlow - there are no "rules" about how we organise society and facilitate work. I am not being obtuse. The only true "rules" of society are laws and regulations. What individuals choose to do in excess of laws to help rub along in society is another matter.

Yes, I do completely understand and agree with your point about people basing their working responsibilities around the childcare they have organised. Suddenly having no childcare does indeed change the jobs we can do and the time we have to do them. My view is that, whether it's fair or not, many of us will have to change and adjust our expectations in response - I don't pretend this is easy or satisfying in the slightest, just realistic.

My kids are 8 and 6 and I am working 40 hours a week from home. I arent a single parent, but my DP works between 60 and 65 hours a week out of the house so we only briefly see him in the morning. If your kids are younger I can see a struggle. But if you are being paid for working your normal hours that's what you should be doing unless you have arranged something else with your employer.

Gahd I am very glad I have a good employer who values their employees and has an eye on the long game.

there are no "rules" about how we organise society and facilitate work

Of course there are. They may be unspoken, but they are universally understood.

Every single person signing their employment contract did so in the knowledge that they would need childcare to fulfil the terms of that contract. Employers understood this too. In fact, it’s written into many contracts.

Parents then signed another contract with a provider to secure that childcare.

To suggest, as ColourMyDreams did and you then defended, that the terms of the employment contract must be adhered to as the terms of the other contract is binned, is ridiculous and makes no sense.

Which I think you do then admit to when you say this.

Suddenly having no childcare does indeed change the jobs we can do and the time we have to do them

Yes, everyone’s expectations need to shift. The original contract can’t be adhered to to the letter though.

In any case, it isn’t being, even for non parents. My contract states I should be in the office, physically, between 9-5. For many reasons, that’s not possible.

My long game is ,and has to be,survival of the business
For everyone's sake
We are in special circumstances,and to date I am paying everyone in full,but sooner or later most employers (in the private sector) will be going back to the normal rules ie work your normal hours for normal pay or cut your hours and pay,take unpaid leave or ultimately quit
Obviously if the government gets childcare/schools open again that would help

Yes it's crucial, that's the point.
I enjoyed the post earlier the recommended doing 2 hours of work between 7 - 9 whilst your 4 & 6 year old children get themselves up, dressed and fed

If single parents can't work for lack of childcare and if employers wont hire them, they need decent benefits.
Society is going to be different after Covid, its going to take a change in attitude and one of the things that has to go is benefits bashing.
I think one way round this is a decent Citizens Wage.

Re the 'rules' I would imagine that any employment dispute (or any other disputes) will be decided on the current law(unless amended)

will be decided on the current law(unless amended)

I don’t imagine a lawyer would find it difficult to construct an argument along the lines of ‘yes, but childcare was forcibly shut down by the government’

Interesting
Time will tell
Would mean a big change in legal practice

Would mean a big change in legal practice

Hardly. Contextual circumstances will always be taken into account.

It will be interesting though, I agree.

A shift towards not employing parents because of childcare will have to be accompanied by figuring out how they will be supported by the government as a result.

@LaurieMarlow - sorry, but "unspoken rules" aren't worth the paper they're written on. Something is only universal if applies to all. A "rule" can't apply to all unless everyone knows what it is, and it can't be enforced unless there is a law to support this.

Employment contracts are not related to other contracts we choose to form and are individually responsible for - a contract with a childcare provider, a contract with my bank to pay my mortgage etc. One may certainly impact another, but it is not up to my employer to pay my mortgage for me because I can't go to work because I'm a single parent with no childcare.

I certainly do not agree with your assertion linking your condemnation of how an individual employer runs their business with the difficulties caused by a lack of childcare (which is not an employer's responsibility). If you can no longer provide the services for which you are being paid, and you can't agree to an alternative solution with your employer (WFH, fewer hours, job share etc), unfortunately, it's time to find another job.

Two threads now, summarised as follows.

Parents: There's a pandemic, all normality is suspended, parents can't work 10 hour days, employers must be flexible and think of the toll on their mental health.

Me: Yep, fair enough, flexibility is important. Thing is, all the additional work is falling on me as a childless person, so now I'm the one doing the 10 hour days, and I'm quite tired now-

Parents: Excuse me, there's a pandemic, you need to be flexible.

Me: Well, I am being, I'm doing a lot of extra hours, I'm just saying that I wish employers could be flexible to all workers-

Parents: You need to do your bit. We're all in this together. Everyone has to make sacrifices. Stop complaining. You don't know what tired is, anyway, you've got no children.

Me:

You can't expect single parents to work full-time and care for children.

You can't expect a small business to pay (long-term) someone for hours they are not working.

What is needed is central funding for parents to reduce their hours of work during this pandemic.

What’s odd about suggesting that a four and six year old gets themselves dressed and a bowl of cereal?

My three year old can do this

I think it is odd to assume that a 4 and 6 year old would or should get themselves breakfast. Possibly they CAN get themselves breakfast but they are still very young and I don't think the onus should be on them to feed themselves. Asking a three year old to get themselves breakfast on a regular basis seem nuts unless it is in a game format as opposed to 'you fend for yourself now honey'.

You are also assuming that all children should be having cereal for breakfast as this is the one thing that they cannot burn/scald themselves on.

4 and 6 year olds should not be required to get their own breakfast because parents are so laden down with work that they do not have the time to do it. That is just frankly ridiculous.

The whole comment is silly. Lets just leave them home alone too. In fact, lets leave the iron on and they can sort that out and possibly clean the bathroom while they are at it. For God's sake. It is not the answer to expect young children to do more and more for themselves so that their parents can sit at a computer and leave them to their own devices.

For all the business owners who are saying they want to be flexible and are but can’t continue forever as they won’t keep afloat.... yes, that’s a reality and I think the government will need to either support you directly better or support parents to take formal hours cuts and be paid a top up whilst schools are not operating ‘normally’ likely to be at least a year. Funnily enough we had a system that was quite good at that- tax credits!

I have just had the most almighty bollocking from my employer for not working hard enough when I have just done a straight week of 13 hour days. It’s the last in a long line of things since lockdown which have made me feel close to breaking point.

I can technically work this many hours as a single parent. But it’s starting to really damage my mental health and that of my child.

My employer would be within their rights contractually to fire me if I refuse to kill myself with work. And they can and will argue I am lucky to be able to work safely.

They have me over a barrel as they know it’s impossible to find work anywhere else atm.

I wonder what will be the breaking point for people like me forced to work hours for which they no longer have childcare, and what will happen to make employers actually take mental health seriously. I fear that there will be waves of breakdowns and illness episodes and that it will take a large number of people becoming ill for them to take it seriously.

But we’re not saying every single day. We’re saying week days the same as for school. Of course school age children should be getting themselves up/ dressed and getting breakfast. They are not babies

I am honestly amazed that some 4-6 year olds are able to dress up and make breakfast independently (I don't mean physical ability, but rather self-discipline). Even during normal times, our mornings were a constant stream of reminders, mismatched socks, spilled milk and smeared jam. Maybe I failed as a parent even more than I failed as an employee.

I do 8h a day. Single parent to a 6 year old.

I am exhausted, she haa turned from a lovely happy girl into a whining, easily upset child. It hurts to see that and I try my best to do nice things. Homeschooling is totally off the agenda.

But I need to keep my job. It is so tough.

@Glovesick has your employer not put in place any measures to accommodate staff in your situation?