People WFH with small children

[MadameBee]

This is a shameless post for a colleague and not really a AIBU.

Someone who reports to me is WFH but really struggling as she has a 1 year old and most of our work involves being on the phone.

Now has no childcare and fairly unsupportive partner (also out all day working).

How can I help her?

Well you say she's putting up barriers but you've said every solution offered is unworkable. I really feel for her, the stance should be that any work she does is a bonus unless it's work she can do in evenings and on weekends. If there's pressure from above they either need to scale back the service to emergencies only or draft in people from elsewhere in the organisation that are less busy because a lot of work has reduced although not in all areas. What would you do if she had to take unpaid carers leave because it got too much, or called a doctor for a sick note on Monday? Basically do that plan and then what she can do it what she can do.

I work for a local authority and this is how we're doing things. Where I work people are either building up flexi or working overtime if they want or being granted unlimited carers leave (although I don't know many parents that are using a lot. I've only used 4 days myself in 2 years) services are scaled back and if they can't be people are moved.

She's not going to magically be able to disappear her child you have to sort out a solution. For her childs safety and wellbeing please be compassionate because they're so accident prone at that age.

@LaurieMarlow

“We all have to support each other”

Yeah, but only if the person needing support has kids, right? Never mind the single person WFH for the last 6 weeks, going crazy over lack of social contact, not seeing loved ones etc. We will just increase their workload and add more stress! Great!

"What of the mental health of the childfree being pushed to breaking point by having to have an increased workload"

Not interested, parents are working two jobs here and are looking after vulnerable children or adults. This woman has a child that can't feed herself independently, the child would end up in hospital or worse if the mother refused to have her 'increased workload' it's really not the same.

If others have too much on because the team have too much work this screams of poor management. Step up OP. Don't let being in the middle an excuse for inaction, the wellbeing of your staff is your responsibility. If you're anything like my boss you can't bear saying no to your superiors but it needs saying sometimes it's not a failing but a sign of being a good leader.

Washyourhands48 I'm not suggesting their workloads are massively increased either. NO ONE should be working all hours into the evening, as it's not sustainable for anyone's mental health.

My point is, child free people are able to work solidly, say, 8-5pm, with a lunch break. Similar to what they would do in an office. That is sustainable. A parent with small children's job starts as soon as those children wake up, often on broken sleep. That job doesn't even stop when the children go to bed, as they will need to catch up on chores etc. Same as childfree people working all day - they will need their evenings to get other stuff done, chores, exercise, catch up with friends and family online etc. So a parent is unable to work all evening, long term. It's not sustainable.

Surely a lot of companies have experienced a decrease in workload? Mine certainly has. Tasks can then be divided sensibly. If I was childfree, I would want plenty of work to sustain a normal working day, as I would be so bored otherwise. And before the childfree jump on me, I'm not implying for one second that childfree people have no lives because they don't have children, for crying out loud. No one is able to do what fulfills them at the moment, to an extent - eg seeing friends and family, travel, hobbies outside of the home.

If any boss of mine told me to suck it up and they were “not interested” in my poor mental health because of team members slacking or refusing to work evenings as a compromise because of having kids I’d be off to HR in a flash.

Yeah, but only if the person needing support has kids, right?

Parents wfh with kids are taking on two full time jobs at once to support the closing of childcare facilities to help slow the spread of the virus for everyone.

They are more than doing their bit.

Expecting them to do full workloads on top of this, for some, might mean something like 5 hours sleep a night max, absolutely no down time themselves, poor quality care for their children.

That isnt fair, right, sustainable or safe.

If those who have no caring responsibilities have to pick up an hour a day extra or something, then yes, they should be doing this. Defeating this thing takes collective effort.

Surely a lot of companies have experienced a decrease in workload? Mine certainly has

There’s huge variation in my experience. Some are manic. Some are very slow. Some are manically trying to drum up business, with profits plummeting.

You sound like a lovely manager

Me and DH both work in local government. We have three children under 5. I'm on maternity leave so work is irrelevant, but even DH's bosses have been really understanding that he's trying to work in an environment with three very young children and that is really stressful even with another parent on hand. We have a very small house so nowhere quiet for him to work really, but he's working in the evenings mainly when the children are asleep. He's getting about 4 hours work done a day but his boss is happy with that.

Bosses need to be supportive. My own boss is a full time single parent of a three year old and trying to work a full time job at home, she's at breaking point but is getting little support from her own boss.

team members slacking or refusing to work evenings as a compromise because of having kids
FFS, parents aren't SLACKING. And often can't work evenings because after doing childcare and work all day from 6am or earlier, without a lunch break – which the childfree can have – they may be literally unable to work, my eyes simply will not focus after 9pm, plus my kid wakes up all the fucking time so I still can't do a block of work.

Yes, the childfree need to suck it up A BIT. Not to the extent of breaking point, no, but Jesus wept, taking on an extra hour or task for your colleagues' sake while you have full concentration and lunch breaks while they do not, is not breaking point; and if it is, you need to be furloughed or on sick leave.

Yes, the childfree need to suck it up A BIT. Not to the extent of breaking point, no, but Jesus wept, taking on an extra hour or task for your colleagues' sake while you have full concentration and lunch breaks while they do not, is not breaking point

This exactly.

The parents should be taking sick leave in that case @burritofan. they obviously are the ones who can’t cope therefore pushing extra load on to people without kids. Sure, them going sick will have the same result of extra work for others but at least it will be marked down accordingly.

Sure, them going sick will have the same result of extra work for others but at least it will be marked down accordingly.

They’re not sick. Why would they ‘go sick’?

They’re being forced to work under very difficult circumstances, that they never signed up for, for the good of everyone.

So you want to punish parents who are wfh, for the sacrifices they are making to help?

In a way that will impact their record and therefore their ability to provide for their dependents in the future.

Nice.

Why should the childfree be punished with potential for poor mental health issues @laurie? That’s “Nice” too eh?

If a parent cannot carry out their responsibilities to their employer that they are obliged by contract to do, then they should take some form of absence, whether that be sick or unpaid leave.

me result of extra work for others but at least it will be marked down accordingly.
Ah, I see. You're not only not happy that parents are "slacking" but you think their current inability to work at full productivity should be marked down on their permanent record and come up on appraisal. "Look here, Doris, it seems that in the great 2020 pandemic when you worked from 5am to midnight around small children, you weren't at your best, no non-existent bonus for you!"

What do you do in non-pandemic times when colleagues go off long-term sick or have bereavement or carers leave? Just refuse to take on anything extra? What an exemplary employee you sound.

I am so, so lucky to have a more supportive boss and colleagues. I can't imagine how much harder it would be to work alongside people with Lasagnah's attitude! It's only possible for me to work because I can do it early and late. I'm working early mornings, evenings and weekends. It's hellish and I never get a moment. My colleague took a big chunk of my work and did it for me as a kind gift because he gets how difficult it is to manage when doing two full time jobs simultaneously.

If a parent cannot carry out their responsibilities to their employer that they are obliged by contract to do, then they should take some form of absence

How can society insist on the terms of one contract (employment) be followed to the letter, when another contract (childcare), on which that employment contract depends, has been binned for the foreseeable?

No one agreed to their employment contract in a global pandemic where childcare is forced to shut.

Hi OP, one of my direct reports is in a similar position. I've tried to be as supportive as possible as it's not her fault she's in this position.

We talked through the options which were really only working flexibly - taking breaks during the day and catching up in the evenings and managing the best she can, reducing her hours, taking unpaid leave or being redeployed to another area so she could work evenings and weekends when her partner could look after her little one.

She's chosen to work flexibly, which means sometimes she's trying to do video calls with her child on her lap. I'm sure she's not as productive as she would normally be, but it's just one of those things. My feeling is that if I'm supportive and flexible I'll get much more out of her in the long term as she'll be more likely to go the extra mile when she's able to.

Washyourhands I'm glad I'm not your colleague. Imagine never helping out your team! How do you still have a job with that kind of attitude?

OP, it sounds like you have put forward some reasonable suggestions all of which have been rejected. Therefore personally I would seek HR involvement, only because there probably is a policy which will help both of you; maybe give her some time off paid as other public parts of the public sector are doing, or agree to a change of duties which is more fitting with her circumstance. Yes everyone should help out and support where they can, but not to the detriment of their own health. Continue to be approachable and someone she can come to with concerns and it is getting too much, and continue to try and come to an agreement about what is reasonable and fair without working weekends yourself.

I’m a horrible selfish childless worker here so bear with me but I’m willing to bet that if childless workers were only doing the odd hour each day extra, then no problem. I’m averaging 3-4 extra hours per day because over half the workforce has dropped their hours significantly (but not the pay). I’ll never be able to claim that time back, and it’s not paid. Those extra 3-4 hours are in the evening, even though I start at 7am, and whilst it’s not “two different jobs”, it would be nice to have a little recognition of the fact that I’m doing this for children that aren’t mine.

I know it’s the right thing to do, so I’m doing it, but I’ve seen two or three comments on here in the last two days about how parents don’t give a toss about their childless colleagues who have loads of time anyway - seriously goady.

I'm childless and I strongly agree that its easier for me than those with children, I'm busier than usual and working my full hours whilst others are taking less work and working shorter hours and that is completely ok! For at least 3 reasons

I literally dont know how parents are coping! But i do know that expecting them to work normally and look after children is a recipe for disaster, I might not have children but I still give a shit that my colleagues children dont come to harm because of this

Because when I had what was probably covid19 and came back to work but was struggling with the exhaustion after effects, my colleagues rallied around, supported my work and encouraged me to finish early and take extra time away from tasks to recover. So it goes both ways

Because I do have more free time. Don't get me wrong I suffer from chronic insomnia and chronic fatigue. Working a full time job is actually really hard for me and I often do nothing outside of work because I have to recover. But honestly with no commute and less interruptions at work I can afford to cope a little better being a little busier.

I am normally the first to get irritated at some of the things aimed at childfree - shouldnt take holiday in the summer, should work every christmas, not appreciation that we may still have caring responsibilities etc. But honestly, at the moments, this isn't that. This is about people being in an impossible situation and everyone doing their bit to help.

If she’s spending her child’s nap time chatting to you, she isn’t using her time effectively, is she? You’re her line manager and I would think it’s your job to tell her that. Adjustments yes, but she’s hardly helping herself. I can only imagine it’s incredibly hard. But she could perhaps make calls when her lo is doing things, even whilst eating, take them out for walks in the pushchair and talk on the phone as she’s walking for example. She also needs to help herself. The average 1 yo can be amused for a short while as you sit with them and do something else. But it’s a very difficult age, headless chicken Walking.

@laurie I like how you've made the point that parents are accommodating the closure of childcare, I hadn't thought of it that way. I usually rely on a mixture of nursery and grandparents for my childcare, so yes, by keeping my children at home and trying to work, I'm working towards the goal of stopping the pandemic spreading.

Do the child free working individuals not realise that this will ultimately benefit them? My career is now on hold when it was a time when I wanted to work towards the grade above, having had two DC, returned to work and no plans for any more. The other person in my team at my level is childfree and he is doing a lot more than me currently. We're not overly busy so he's certainly not working all the hours, but he's keen to work his usual 7.5 hours a day as yes, he's bored. His partner is also WFH with him. I'm very grateful to him as he's always saying he has capacity and volunteers to do all sorts of tasks.

He's only at this grade on a temporary promotion whereas I've been at this level for 6 years (and have had two small children in that time so two mat leaves). Substantively he's actually a couple of grades below.

Have a guess who'll get promoted to the next grade first? I guarantee it will be him.

I think the issue with expecting others on the team to pick up the slack is that the sympathy seems to only extend to parents and not others with caring responsibilities. My sister is looking after our physically disabled mum who is in the early stages of vascular dementia (we live hundreds of miles away). From experience, dealing with mum is as challenging as dealing with my kids but yet she’s expected to accommodate last minute meeting changes to suit those with children and including having meetings scheduled outside of working hours.

She says she’s been told she’s no idea what it’s like to be stressed or exhausted because she doesn’t have children and because she tried her hardest to accommodate at first it’s now the expectation that she’ll jump whenever. That’s why people end up not wanting to help their team out, because once you’ve done it once the expectation is just there that you’ll do it all the time no matter how much you’re struggling.