To think easing lockdown on Monday is allowing a second peak to happen?

[Gawdsake2020]

Exactly that really. Still 4,000 odd infections a day, 600 deaths a day and there easing up on Monday.

Like it or not we are all going to have to learn to live with corona virus.

Life must go on, we’ve already saddled the younger generations with huge amounts of debt.

*Almost my entire family (young and old) is currently shielded. I find it deeply depressing how little value so many on MN place on their lives.

Still, as long as you can go back to a kind of normality screw us, eh? You've made that crystal clear.*

I don’t think that at all, but what’s the solution? I hope support continues so people shielding can stay at home. Otherwise there are what - 1.5 m shielding out of a population of 65 m? I want every one shielding to be protected as much as and for as long as possible, but it’s not feasible for a country of 65m to stay ground to a halt to facilitate that.

They were taking about that on bbc news this morning @Jupiters that's the sort of thing that needs to be relaxed . It's terrible that you are in pain and you can't see a dentist .
I think most people think the relaxation of lockdown means we will all be down the pub by lunchtime Monday couldn't be further from the truth.

I really find it bemusing that so many people apparantly struggle to understand that the lock down was simply to protest the nhs and ensure it did not breach.

It did not lock down for any other reason. The nhs has spare capacity, it needs to be eased. If not then there needs to be a whole other reason to stay locked down right now. Because it sure as hell won’t be to protect the nhs.

It’s right they are eased now. What would be “murder” is waiting till the start of flu season and then doing it. Ensuring your peak is November or December when the nhs couldn’t cope and sentencing people who would otherwise have survived to certain death.

So unless this fiasco continues until a treatment or vaccine is found, then we need to start to ease now.

I’d also remind people that less than a thousand people under 55 have died, and nearly 95 percent of them had significant underlying conditions. Groups of people who could be protected.

So healthy folks under 55 is likely less than 100 deaths. People, need to put the risk into perspective.

There is one absolute fact that cannot be avoided if ignored.

No epidemic has EVER been reduced because people are bored frustrated and fed up.

Almost my entire family (young and old) is currently shielded. I find it deeply depressing how little value so many on MN place on their lives.Still, as long as you can go back to a kind of normality screw us, eh? You've made that crystal clear.

I’m sorry but why does everyone else have to stay home because you are shielded? Why can’t you continue to shield whilst everyone else gets on with it? Are you genuinely saying that millions and millions of people shouldn’t go back to normality because you can’t?

I've just watched a piece on the news about how difficult it is for families living in tower blocks. They can't be kept cooped up for much longer.

No epidemic has EVER been reduced because people are bored frustrated and fed up

I don’t think you appreciate the consequences of a lockdown if you think that is the extent of the reason for easing out of it.

If people stop thinking about themselves and start thinking what’s best for others then it’s clear that lockdown must be considerably eased

Jupiters, arent there any emergency dental treatment centres - i had thought there were?

What happens if dental patients have infections at the moment - how do they get antibiotics?
I appreciate the dentists might need ppe.

@fromlittleacorns all dentistry has been stopped because of the huge AGP risk. Local dentists can issues antibiotics over the phone. There are some dental hubs but you need a referral and they need full (hard to get) PPE with rest and deep clean rooms after. Dentistry and many other things like this won't be the same for a long time.

If people stop thinking about themselves and start thinking what’s best for others then it’s clear that lockdown must be considerably eased

Exactly it’s like the people who are dying because of it don’t count. They do count, they count very much.

And as said, the risk needs to be understood. The elderly and the shielded need to continue to be shielded. People who are scared can make their own decisions on how to interact, when to go out, what Ppe to wear etc. But being scared is not a reason for everyone to stay on lock down.

Neither is enjoying it and finding life easier on lock down.

Other countries far less well off than this one have managed far better. It’s shameful to have had so many deaths, and shocking that so many people seem to think there’s nothing that can be done about it.

@fromlittleacorns no, no dentists open here at all. I can get telephone advice... But the only advice I they can give is "you need to get your tooth fixed" that hasn't helped me much.

Almost my entire family (young and old) is currently shielded. I find it deeply depressing how little value so many on MN place on their lives

I find it deeply depressing that you'd be happy for millions of people to spend months in lockdown and lose their jobs and houses, just so your family could avoid a virus for a bit longer.

Poverty kills. Being poor is associated with bad health, obesity and a shorter life expectancy. Stress and low mental health causes increased risks of health issues like heart attacks. Our economy is headed for the worst downturn in living memory - and people are absolutely deluded if they think there'll be a "V shaped recovery" and they'll be swanning back from furlough into their old jobs. Businesses are folding every day! And new ones aren't going to start up overnight, as people need savings or loans to start a business, and if no-one has any money they won't have either.

If half the country is sat at home getting government money, there won't be enough money coming in to pay for the NHS or anyone's benefits or pensions. Everything will dry up and there'll be no social safety net. You have to see the bigger picture - 600 corona deaths a day sound bad now, but if we keep lockdown much longer then the next decade will be full of early deaths in much greater numbers; we just won't be able to measure them so easily.

Of course you're being unreasonable. You have no idea what they're going to announce, or what impact it will have.

A second peak will probably happen though. It isn't an overriding objective to avoid a second peak.

The UK should have closed its borders. It didn't, and the virus ran rampant. I'm so glad I live in the Channel Islands right now. No increase in cases for 3 day, and a rate of infection over twice as low (per capita) than the UK, and a death rate even lower than that per capita. Why? Because we closed our borders 5 weeks ago. No one in, no one out, and a population that didn't try to rebel against the rule 'just because'. Now we hope our local island governments keep our borders closed, even when they are 'officially' opened. We are looking to New Zealand for inspiration, not the UK. The UK is a bit of a mess, frankly!

There is one absolute fact that cannot be avoided if ignored. No epidemic has EVER been reduced because people are bored frustrated and fed up.

How do you know?

Almost my entire family (young and old) is currently shielded. I find it deeply depressing how little value so many on MN place on their lives.Still, as long as you can go back to a kind of normality screw us, eh? You've made that crystal clear.

It's not as simple as that. If the economy completely disintegrates there will be no NHS or other services to support vulnerable people.

I'm happy to sit at home for the next few months if it helps save 30000 lives. But the sad reality is that shutting the country down in the longer term would cost as many lives as it saves. it's a horrible dilemma.

The thing to my mind is that a slow controlled exit would allow everyone to get out more

A rushed exit means some people are forced to shield for much longer whilst those at lower risk will get to do much more

Like giving everyone £1 or giving some £2 and others none. One is fair but I can se why the £2 winners would be happy

Almost my entire family (young and old) is currently shielded. I find it deeply depressing how little value so many on MN place on their lives.Still, as long as you can go back to a kind of normality screw us, eh? You've made that crystal clear..

No, it's just people are realistic. The more people who can get back to work etc do so, the more support that can be diverted to those shielding etc. If you are staying at home though, aside from fomo, why do you need everyone else to stay in too? Some people are already at work delivering your food etc presumably. Quite a selfish and odd attitude really.

Almost my entire family (young and old) is currently shielded. I find it deeply depressing how little value so many on MN place on their lives

I value their lives. I also value the lives of others who are being harmed during lockdown and who will suffer and die if we do not ease measures soon, and those who have already suffered and died as a horrible side effect of the measures taken to slow the spread of the virus. There must be a balance.

@midgebabe for most people it will mean returning to the office, it's doubtful that things like travel and a lot of leisure activities are going to all reopen, and if they do it definitely won't be as we know it.

@RoosterPie

I sympathise and wish your family the best but can I ask your solution? The virus won’t be eradicated so whenever we lift lockdown it’s the same problem, isn’t it?

I've had cancer so death is something I've thought of before. It's the horror of the covid death that is so distressing, alone and away from everyone that matters.

My solution? Well, not to ease up too soon. No rush back to work for anyone until social distancing has been put in place in workplaces and then a gradual return, maybe part time and part time at home. Certainly no mass gatherings, sport, cinema, arena or theatre. Keep pubs and restaurants closed unless social distancing can be enforced. I believe the Cheltenham races going ahead was a huge mistake. And enough masks available for those who want to use them.

I'm very concerned about schools and how children and teachers will be protected but some seem to just want them all back with no social distancing, PPE or screens.

There are already plenty of people breaking the rules as it is and easing them will mean even more breaking those that remain. It's fine to say you make your own risk assessment but it often impacts unfairly on others.

I think the mot amazing thing about this thread is that it is split roughly 50:50. Who would have thought the British people could find something as divisive as Brexit and so soon afterwards??

Meanwhile our 'friends in Europe' as Mr Johnson likes to call them seem to acting a lot more rationally and making a lot more progress.

And don't forget that unlike us they don't have ' the best health service in the world'!?!?