Using ( not resident) nanny during lockdown?

[Ladyinamask]

So found out today my SIL and BIL are still having the nanny take care of their children . Nanny does not live with them btw.
I am rather horrified but not completely surprised they do this. Not key workers but both highly paid and quite frankly extremely arogent at the best if times.
They live in a rather nice part of West London by the river so hardly a remote hamlet with no known covid cases nearby.
Is this against the rules or is everyone still doing this?

So not all of us are evil @Twigletmama? 😁

Also, one point I would make is that a lot of us who employ nannies do so because we have jobs that require significant flexibility and long hours from us that might mean we would miss nursery pick ups or because we have kids with additional needs. I.e. precisely the demographic that would struggle more to look after kids and wfh.

@thetoddleratemyhomework totally agree on it being immoral for people still earning to claim back furlough payments from the government when they're home on full pay themselves.

The other thing I don't get from the OP is what you want your SIL/BIL to do with their children when they're working? Presumably if they're both highly paid, their jobs have a modicum of stress and involve frequent meetings etc.

If they have young children, would you like them to strap them into buggies/high chairs in front of Peppa Pig for 6 hours a day with a bowl of snacks so they can both meet their work commitments and keep the kids safe? Because that's what I'm thinking of doing with my toddler next time I have online meetings/teaching...strap him in and shut the door (I won't, of course, at least not for the whole time). Is that the sort of care you want their children to receive? It's the children who will suffer if their parents are spread too thin.

Wish we had a nanny here... two complex jobs, both working from home with 2 very active boys who require homeschooling/entertaining. It is exceptionally hard!

Jealousy from the OP, pure and simple.

biscuit

I haven’t stopped going out to work at all and I’m not essential. No 2 metre rule either as it’s impossible. Nanny’s are allowed to work. I suggest you read the actual ‘rules’ before accusing others of breaking them

@Sunshineandmoonlight - I preferred ‘viral care’

Another guidance document which I can't see mentioned yet is this one, which was updated yesterday to specifically include about a nanny.

Sector Guidance
"You are a tradesperson carrying out essential repairs and maintenance in people’s homes, or are carrying out other work in a home such as cleaning or paid-for childcare in a child’s home. You can continue work, providing that you are well and have no symptoms. No work should be carried out by a tradesperson, cleaner or nanny who has coronavirus symptoms, however mild, or when someone in their own household has symptoms."

It then goes on to say about maintaining a safe distance from household occupants for whom direct care is not being provided. So that means the adults in the household.

I have been at work today and whilst tricky at times it is possible to have minimal contact with adults whilst caring fully for the child/children.

I am only providing care for those I cared for immediately prior to lockdown, no one new. So the risk is not significantly increased as it was a risk before lockdown.

Has anyone else noticed that the guidelines have been changed, they are subtle changes, but are happening all of the time. Not just with teadespeople and nannies but in other areas too.

Why have the government not made it clear in the debrief that you can in fact have decorators over, builders, nannies and all the rest. Why continue with the stay at home protect the NHS mantra, if indeed we are all supposed to be back at work, and back to normal.

The guidelines do not in any way match with the public announcements.

We should be hearing, everyone needs to be back in work unless they are shielding. If that is indeed happening anyway on the ground.

No wonder the infection rate is not going down very quickly, if its okay for decorators, builders, nannies and all the rest coming in and out of people's homes, as we have seen on this thread.

I am considering reinstating my cleaner, decorator now. Having read the updated guidelines it appears it is fine to now do so.

I haven't seen the guidelines today. But it has always been the case for nannies to work.
Would I be having my cleaner in? No. Not essential. Would I be having a painter in? No. It can wait.
But a nanny is essential to their employers keeping their job.

Also, I watch the daily briefings nearly every day, I probably miss 1 or 2 a week. The public announcement has always been to stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives. But they ALWAYS state the reasons for leaving your home have been exercise, work, food or medicine. That is quite clear to me?

Biscuit, the guidance has always been that you can go to work if you cannot work from home. As I understand it, people interpreted the guidance in an overly restrictive way and distanced more than the government expected and for a while the government decided to go along with it because people were so worried and it gave the NHS extra breathing room. There's a reason why NHS capacity is not breached and is totally fine in most places and why nightingale has been wound down etc. The deaths that are happening now are in relation to infections from over 4 weeks ago and actually there is very little infection in the community - most transmission is happening in hospitals and care homes and very likely soon most deaths will be in the care sector too.

The problem with the British people is that they are incapable of being sensible or distinguishing between situations. One nanny who is otherwise social distancing coming to one house and mixing with another family who are otherwise social distancing travelling without using public transport is very low risk. Can you make the same assessment for your cleaner? If so, crack on! Same with tradespeople - if my loo was broken I would get it fixed, unlike one poster on here who said they would rely on having another one. I'd just distance from the plumber, then wait a day or so for any virus to settle and give the whole room a proper scrub - also very low risk I would think. There are lots on here who think employing a nanny is madness and unethical but who would happily have a family BBQ tomorrow if they could.

Biscuit0110
But it's clearly not going to be anywhere near as safe with your cleaner, nor is it necessary to your job.

That's why the vast majority of us who are continuing to employ a nanny are continuing to pay our cleaners not to come, growing out our hair roots and letting any manky hallways go unpainted. I don't think you want to see the difference, frankly.

@Biscuit0110 having a cleaner and decorator is against the guidelines, it really really is quite simple, I really don't understand what you find difficult.

But still carry on thinking you can do those things, I can't stop you, I suppose we just have to live with the consequences of you doing it.

My cleaner only works for us, and is semi retired, she is desperate for the money as her dh has since last his job entirely. I have been paying her 80% up to now, in line with everyone else. She has asked for extra hours. I can't work the same amount of hours that I would usually, as I am having to do all of the cleaning and laundry, so yes I do need her to be able to work.

My decorator is a tradesman and according the government guidelines posted on here can come according this thread! I may ask him just to work on the outside jobs for the time being.

So not sure why it matters now, as people clearly have decided the lockdown is over on this thread anyway.

Dog groom said she is restarting on Monday with stringent measures in place. I am not sure about booking yet but she is open for anyone who wants to go.

As the pp said you make risk assessments yourself, and as long as you deem it to be safe and you are within the guidelines than why not?! I have followed the guidelines to the letter so far, but I can hardly see the point when others think it is okay to have nannies, builders etc inside their homes for non essential work.

@biscuit I find your post really contradictory. A nanny is essential. A dog groomer and cleaner isn't. I can't believe you are actually comparing not being able to work because you need to clean your house.

@Biscuit0110 yes, in your circumstances your cleaner could come within guidelines and decorating for outside jobs, if you feel safe and are very confident that they are also respecting guidelines so as not to put you at risk, and you are respecting guidelines (as it certainly sounds like you are) to minimise risk to them.

It was never totally about essential and non essential otherwise they would have closed takeaways, for example. What is important is the balance between importance and risk - so a cleaner like yours who is otherwise isolated is far lower risk than the majority, who have multiple clients and their own families. Similarly you cutting down hours to do cleaning, or someone with physical limitations that make cleaning hard, makes one more essential than someone who can manage ok without.

But please stop being so harsh on others, very few are having builders work at all, let alone having them inside the home for anything non-essential. Our friends in the trade are buckling under, and only being asked to do things like completing renovations to allow the family to have working plumbing, or fixing major breakages. Similarly those employing nannies are overwhelmingly doing so with extreme caution and to safeguard all of their jobs.

Hugglespuffed
Yes, but I feel fairly certain that Biscuit0110 has never tried to work with small children around the house (or not for a long time? Or maybe has just never encountered a toddler?). Which also makes me wonder what kind of lifestyle makes it so impossible to clean a house without eating into work hours. But 🤷🏼‍♀️

Quite apart from anything I can hardly walk, I am waiting for surgery and it is agony to clean. So really, why am I suffering like this when the risk are clearly so low, and others are doing it anyway? There is no point. I don't feel I am harsh, just honest.

Some of us are making bigger sacrifices than others it seems, and the injustice will see the lockdown unravel in days. People reading this thread will rightly or wrongly assume that other people are putting their own needs first. Many parents are working without a nanny, and may even be paying her to stay at home whilst they struggle on. Many millions are trying to do the right thing. It does smack of people interpreting the guidelines however they like...

Many parents are working without a nanny, and may even be paying her to stay at home whilst they struggle on. Many millions are trying to do the right thing. It does smack of people interpreting the guidelines however they like...

For goodness' sake, we are interpreting the guidelines exactly as they are written.

You're saying it's hard for you to manage cleaning and working, but not impossible, so you'll keep struggling on.

If we could manage to care for 4 small DCs while working full time in inflexible jobs, we would absolutely struggle on. We tried! But it was impossible. And given that the alternative is job loss for both us and our nanny, without any meaningful reduction in overall risk, we will take our legally spelt out option to do this, and take every step to reduce risk to be the equivalent of having one more person in our household, also following guidelines. This IS the 'right thing'.

@Biscuit0110 ? Unless you're trying to be deliberately goady , the situations are entirely different. Cleaning is not something that HAS to happen, we can all live with things being a bit dirtier and messier. Caring for children on the other hand is something that is essential. Similarly, there is a world of difference between one nanny doing to one household and a cleaner who would be visiting many.

I blame the Government in part for misrepresenting the legislation in some public talks. The law has never banned non essential workers from working at all (unless in a pub etc or if they can work from home); whereas access to a state school place is limited to nurses etc (althoughe ven that includes loads of people in jobs like food delivery, keeping wifi working and the like) which is a totally different issue.

I know few friends using creche workers who have been let go (temporarily they hope) to come to their house. Most have v young kids impossible to work & look after them. I am jealous! I only 3 day week so we manage (just) but schools break up here end may n planning to ask my teen neighbour to come for few hours days I work.

Social distancing at work

www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance

I think you can have your cleaner and your nanny.

Up to you to risk assess the number of places your cleaner/nanny etc go and whether that's an acceptable risk for you. But it is permissible for them to come and work.