Using ( not resident) nanny during lockdown?

[Ladyinamask]

So found out today my SIL and BIL are still having the nanny take care of their children . Nanny does not live with them btw.
I am rather horrified but not completely surprised they do this. Not key workers but both highly paid and quite frankly extremely arogent at the best if times.
They live in a rather nice part of West London by the river so hardly a remote hamlet with no known covid cases nearby.
Is this against the rules or is everyone still doing this?

Oh and by the way, I have told my nanny that she can choose not to come and I will still pay her, but she has chosen to come. Because she is a professional and enjoys her job.

@thetoddleratemyhomework

I am a MC solicitor. It is just not possible to do a full day without childcare for a toddler. Maybe if you say consists of calls telling other people to do stuff, then you can manage. Not when you have to do intricate/detailed work that requires lots of concentration and client contact to tight deadlines.

Fair enough! I have specifically mentioned that solicitors may need to retain their nanny's at this time. Same with CEOs, as you suggest, they're not all equal! Just because nanny's are mentioned in the guidelines doesn't mean it's BAU in all cases.

@randomchatter

No of course not! I wasn't saying all nannies have to go to work. Clearly if you can manage without your nanny easily then you wouldn't ask her to come. Just don't tar those of us who cannot manage without a nanny as immoral or useless. We are employers who are doing our best in the circumstances

@thetoddleratemyhomework

Oh and by the way, I have told my nanny that she can choose not to come and I will still pay her, but she has chosen to come. Because she is a professional and enjoys her job.

Exactly what I've said previously - That some in your position should /will do. However I would suggest if your nanny did her own risk assessment and decided to stay at home, that she'd still be 'professional and enjoy her job'!

I don't think this is about jealousy or virtue signalling. I suspect it's about feelings running high right now due to the appallingly high death rate in this country. It's clear that some of us were wrong about the rules concerning non residential nannies, as we hadn't read up on the guidelines since we don't have nannies. And no, it isn't jealousy, that's a very big assumption to make.

We're all clear now that we were wrong about the government guidelines, so there's no need to keep repeating them. But that doesn't mean that we all have to agree with those guidelines. There's also concern that some nannies will feel pressurised into continuing to go into work when either they or members of their households have vulnerabilities, (I'm not suggesting that's the case with anyone on the thread btw.)

Speaking for myself, I confess that I made the mistake of forgetting how time consuming preschool children are. My DH is managing to work full-time at home whilst minding our DDs with very little help from me, as I'm not well, but he certainly couldn't have done that when they were 5 and 2. They're 11 and 8 now and that's why it's possible now.

Not sure why one would get so heated about a topic that doesn't concern them directly - It's just an exchange of ideas and views surely?

Well, not for the many on the thread who are either nannies or employers of nannies. We're the ones you're calling "fickle numpties" for not being able to care for toddlers while both working full time, or being called selfish and morally incorrect, or in the case of nannies, having other pps imply that they can't be trusted to follow guidelines outside of work and would therefore put children at risk. We naturally feel a bit defensive.

Not sure on the other hand why some of the posters here who it apparently does not concern directly are feeling so extremely angry about others who are all totally following guidance and trying to do their best to safeguard each others health and jobs. Are you equally or more active on threads about people with cars driving to the shops when key workers have to take the bus? Or people who can cook ordering takeaway via a delivery driver? Or people ordering new clothes or craft kit from Amazon when they could do without?

@randomchatter

She would of course still be a professional!!

Sorry, regardless of the outcome, it is the fact that she is able to have a conversation with me about it and that we are able to agree what we are both comfortable with and not (I self isolated at the start, I also self isolated after going to a social distancing family funeral at my nanny's request, I don't go shopping and when we are out of lockdown I will specifically discuss any further contact I am having with others with my nanny), that makes her a real professional.

Obviously we would have had a different conversation if our nanny was vulnerable or lives with vulnerable people - I made it perfectly clear that we would be paying her in full and she would need to stay at home if that was the case - no question. We of course would pay her in full if she got ill. In a scenario in which our nanny couldn't come, if this persisted for a long period of lockdown we might have had to get a relief temp nanny and furlough our current nanny, but we would always have paid her in full and she absolutely knows that. Ultimately, employing a nanny is extremely personal - I want her to be happy looking after my daughter. She is not "staff". She is a member of our extended family, particularly in my daughter's eyes.

@Mittens030869

Thank you. It is hard with a toddler. They are wonderful but very time consuming and being able to keep to a routine is often very important. My daughter was struggling a bit with being shunted from one of us to the other according to our client demands of the day without really understanding why. I understand that lots of people are doing this without a nanny - I think those people are amazing. It is however clear from the many threads on mumsnet that combining childcare and work is very difficult and lots are struggling mentally and I don't think it is very compassionate to say (as others have done on this thread, though not you) "well you should be struggling like others" - that is what looks like bitterness or jealousy.

It's allowed. They have a nanny for a reason. Mind your own business

@Stuckforthefourthtime

No, I really am talking about the fickle ones, not those who retain a nanny after doing a risk assessment and in consideration of the nanny and their family and cannot do without a nanny because their work commitments have not changed.

My point really is about those who can do without a nanny at this time because their business has been impacted and as a result are working fewer hours. There seems to be a notion that these people don't exist and that the guidelines say that in all cases a nanny is essential during lock-down. In some cases it is no more essential than ordering a takeaway!

As I've said before, just because the word nanny is mentioned in the guidelines, doesn't mean it's BAU for all who use a nanny's services. I'm suggesting also that this is what the OP is alluding to!

Are you equally or more active on threads about people with cars driving to the shops when key workers have to take the bus? Or people who can cook ordering takeaway via a delivery driver? Or people ordering new clothes or craft kit from Amazon when they could do without?

I'm here talking of a topic I find of particular interest and feel I have something to add - A slightly different perspective and experience to yours.

As I've said before, just because the word nanny is mentioned in the guidelines, doesn't mean it's BAU for all who use a nanny's services. I'm suggesting also that this is what the OP is alluding to!

From the very brief one goady post, I can't see the OP alluding to that at all! It's more they're arrogant, rich and live in a hamlet and not key workers.

@understandme

You're probably right. I've seen a few goady posts over the years that seem to be from researchers, bloggers and news outlets. My initial instinct however was that the OP was talking about people they know intimately so gave them credit for being able to discern between the feckless and fickle and those who's work and need for a nanny hasn't changed.

That they may be goading doesn't detract from where we are in this particular debate.

@Noti23

It’s different for key workers, they should get to keep nannies. But what about regular people working from home who can’t afford nannies, they send their kids to nurseries which are all shit now? Why do non-key workers get to keep their nannies as childcare when everyone else looses theirs??

Difficult to imagine a more mean-spirited comment, actually...And I say that as someone struggling wfh with very active toddler and who would love a nanny...Fact is, unless you have a very undemanding job or one which allows you to effectively 'tag team' with your partner (not my situation), you can't both work and look after a young child...You end up neglecting one and, if it's the toddler, that's dangerous and sub-standard care. Why do you want more children neglected/potentially injured just so it's 'fair'? Do you want A&E visits to increase?

Seriously, trying to balance this is killing me...wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Would love to quit even though I love my job (I'm luckier than some as we could manage without my income) but I don't feel I can let my students down as their assessments are coming up in a few weeks...But one thing I definitely don't wish is for more people (and children) to be in this situation just to make it 'fair'.

@sisyphusrollstheboulder

Difficult to imagine a more mean-spirited comment

I don't see anything mean-spirited in @Noti23 post. Aren't we all thinking the same thing? Hasn't this pandemic highlighted some key issues with our style of economic democracy ?

The question is very relevant in a world where first world countries are susceptible to these pandemics rather than physical bombs dropping on our populations?

Doesn't this fact turn our economic structure on it's head to a system where key workers and front line medical staff become the new middle classes, highly paid because they are essential to keeping our democracies working/prospering?

Isn’t this just highlighting another structural issue in society. To afford a nanny you have to be very well paid.

Therefore the majority of people use alternative childcare. Even people doing difficult, intellectually challenging, important jobs.

At the moment childminders and nurseries are all shut.

Therefore most people ( excluding key workers) are having to juggle work and childcare.

This is a pretty horrendous situation for many people and is impacting their work, relationships and mental health.

Therefore it’s very understandable that they are jealous of people who are able to have their nanny work.

I have to disagree there about the affordability. I live in a city (not London) and nurseries here are quite expensive. I'm a nanny who mostly works in nanny shares. The cost difference for the families to use me (in a nanny share) versus using a nursery is minimal. It isn't always to do with the rich!

And once again, I repeat, nannies can still work because the mixing is minimal. Nurseries and childminders often have a lot more families so too many 'bubbles' mixing.

@randomchatter

Why do non-key workers get to keep their nannies as childcare when everyone else looses theirs??

The implication was that, since some of us are having an awful time, others should suffer too.

Working from home with young children is child neglect. We are putting our children at risk because we can't supervise them properly. The risks with young children include serious accidents/injuries, not simply feeling lonely because Mummy can't play since she needs to work. We've had a number of near-misses here involving chairs, a broken glass OH left out and leaving the tap running in the kitchen sink. We are all being encouraged to mass-neglect our children to minimise the economic damage. That is wrong. If there are any other options available to us (unpaid leave/furloughing), my view is that we should be taking them if we can. But these options are not open to everyone and some people can't afford them. If I as a parent had another option (i.e. a nanny), I'd take it. This is because, selfish as it is, the balance of risk to be struck is between an unidentifiable, hopefully small, increase in risk to the general population versus the actual, very visible risk of harm to my child due to inadequate supervision and parents stressed beyond belief. So, although I'm jealous of those who can afford this option, I don't blame them. No one should be expected to both work and supervise small children.

When we suggest on this thread that 'high earners' with nannies (who are often working 12-14 hour days) should wfh AND look after their children rather than relying on the nanny, what we really mean is that they should take unpaid leave/quit their jobs, surely? Let's not pretend it's possible.

Yes, maybe we should have a conversation about how society values those it depends on the most and whether a positive outcome from this will be greater value ascribed to 'key workers'. Freely admit to not being a key worker (although my students value my contribution to their education) although I'm not highly paid either (hence no nanny). But don't really have the headspace for those debates at the moment.

@sisyphusrollstheboulder

You're right, I misread the quote! We're in the middle of a pandemic and it's essential that we physically distance and there is no other solution but to close nurseries and schools etc.

However it's one minor question amongst some important ones that need to be asked and answered frankly because people simply don't accept that we really aren't all equal.

I think a major question is about the status (and therefore salary) of key workers in our society and I hope we sort this out soon.

I do take issue with one of your comments though:

Working from home with young children is child neglect

It really isn't - it can be difficult but humans are resourceful, we manage!

I do take issue with one of your comments though:

Working from home with young children is child neglect

Fair comment. Maybe others are managing better than us and don't feel that their children are suffering. We definitely feel that we are neglecting our 2 year old.