Using ( not resident) nanny during lockdown?

[Ladyinamask]

So found out today my SIL and BIL are still having the nanny take care of their children . Nanny does not live with them btw.
I am rather horrified but not completely surprised they do this. Not key workers but both highly paid and quite frankly extremely arogent at the best if times.
They live in a rather nice part of West London by the river so hardly a remote hamlet with no known covid cases nearby.
Is this against the rules or is everyone still doing this?

It's very specifically and clearly allowed in official government guidance.

As for the 'morally wrong' crew... Do you also judge all the local people ordering a takeaway? Or do you even do it yourself and consider it supporting local businesses? Because people working for delivery services are paid a lot less than a nanny, often have to travel to work on public transport, and also are working close to others with no or inadequate PPE - and there's a clear alternative, as anyone who's not a key worker can cook their own, right?

We started with our nanny on furlough, and with small children and two full time jobs that require a lot of conference calls, it was quickly clear that I would have to stop working. Given she's expressly permitted to work. would be defrauding HMRC if I asked my work to furlough me for childcare issues due to not having a nanny, and then me for furlough her on the basis that I didn't need her. My work was not open to me taking months of unpaid leave. The other alternative was for me to quit, and furlough her then make her redundant - thus costing the tax payer far more money, and making very little difference to any of our safety, as she lives alone, works only for us, walks to work and we have shopped for both households.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do#can-i-travel-to-someones-house-to-look-after-children

The legislation is very clear (and are not just guidelines as someone said above)., You can and indeed should work including going to work if that work cannot be done from home. www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/contents/made

*and should add - our cleaner is not coming, and we're paying in full. To me that's a completely different and far riskier situation than a sole-family nanny, both for employer and employee.

Great so my hairdresser, beautician, decorator, cleaner, dog groomer all need to work, so lets book them all up!

Their "place of work" is not your house. Unless you have one of them all to yourself?

@SuperDuperJezebel ignore her, she doesn't appear to know what she's talking about. I'm glad you're still in work and able to support your family as a result...

@Piglet89 It is explicitly stated that nannies can work -even though they’re coming in close contact with the children. The social distancing applies to other people who are also allowed to work in your house eg tradesmen and cleaners.

My goodness some people on here! The rules are very very clear - nannies are allowed to work.

Our nanny is still coming. Both my husband and I wfh (I am a key worker he is not) full time in jobs that require lots of meetings etc (so cant be done at night). Our nanny lives alone a 5 minute walk away. She isn’t working for anyone else or doing babysitting - she only leaves the house to come to our house. She is desperate to work! (And no we haven’t put pressure on her to do so, we’ve told her that if she feels uncomfortable she should tell us.) If she didn’t come one of us would have to take unpaid leave, you cannot have two kids under 3 years old unsupervised.

Our cleaner isn’t coming (and yes we’re still paying her) but it’s utterly ridiculous to suggest we should be furloughing our nanny at the taxpayer’s expense when she is permitted to and willing to work.

Is there a specific rule that grandparents can't do childcare at this time?

SnackSizeRaisin the guidance linked above specifically prohibits travelling to someone's house for unpaid childcare - this is because of the need to balance retaining jobs with minimising mixing of households.

So if you have legally employed them, tax is being paid on their income, you are contributing to their pension, they are not medically at risk and your home is their place of work then of course. If they move in and you become one household then of course. If not, then unfortunately no.

@bumbleymummy ok. Following this all with interest as we have a nanny due to start with us later in the year. Hoping things will be a bit more normal by then...but if not, useful to have an idea what the lie of the land might be.

Many countries in the world have had a far stricter lockdown than we have had, with childcare not even being available to key workers. Our government has relied upon people taking social responsibility and making the right decision. Clearly this has not worked and we now have one of the highest death rates in the world. The underlying principle of all of the guidelines is to have no contact with anyone outside of your household unless absolutely necessary. Unless BOTH parents are key workers ( and even then I'd imagine it might often be possible to request opposite shifts etc) there should be no reason to use childcare.

Also to the person who suggested that childminders are allowed to operate. This is completely incorrect. It's the same a nurseries, only for key workers.

And now we can clearly see why the UK is on target to have one of the highest death rates in the world.

Jesus christ.

If you are not a key worker doing essential work you should not be driving anywhere except to the supermarket for food. That includes nannies and cleaners and all the rest. Nannies should have been furloughed like everyone else, and it is a disgrace really that they haven't in some cases. I am sure the guidelines were intended for Nannies working for keyworkers, they were not intended for everyone!

It seems the government have much to do to tighten the guidelines. They are clearly nowhere near clear enough for some people.

Unless BOTH parents are key workers ( and even then I'd imagine it might often be possible to request opposite shifts etc) there should be no reason to use childcare.

Yeah that's a great idea, sleep is overrated anyhow! I'm sure key workers on nights will probably just sleep all night so won't have to sleep during the day.

There has never been a rule that you can only go out to work if you're a key/essential worker. That's just not what our lockdown is. It is in other countries but not here. It is very clear that you can go to work if you can't work from home no matter what that work is.

drs My cleaner's place of the work is MY house, just my house actually, no different to a nanny in fact. We are supposed to only be travelling for essential reasons, not mixing households, and to be socially distancing and so we pay her to stay at home, so that she is safe. If I apply your rules, because she has to work, then she could start again tomorrow no problem.

I am furious that people are clearly flouting the guidelines, taking the advice and bending it to suit themselves. It was just the kind of selfish, damaging behaviour I thought I would see when it was first announced. I am glad I don't know people like this in real life, almost everyone I know would never do this. Shocking and selfish doesn't even cover it.

Obviously it depends on the circumstances. People's shift patterns vary hugely. Not all key workers work nights. It might be possible for
those doing daytime shifts to work opposite days of the week, for example

I think the issue should be addressed with Public Health of England since they advise the government on this matter and the guidelines is not clear. You can not demand businesses to go bust but at the same time create loopholes that increases the spread of the virus.

SuperDuperJezebel. Well done! You deserve the nanny lockdown prize! Are you sure that you are not the employer?

@amelisa1 why are you being so spiteful to @superduperjezebel? You sound so angry in your post!

She was explaining very well how this can work with a two house bubble because people are discussing nannying during lockdown on this thread. It's what the whole thread is about. Her explanation was entirely relevant and really clear.

Jesus Biscuit, no one on this thread is bending guidelines. They’ve quoted the exact piece of government guideline that states they are allowed to work. You disagree with that guideline, that’s fine, that’s your prerogative, you can chose to have your household in a stricter lockdown then the government suggests, but repeatedly shouting about other people maintaining the standards of lockdown outlined by the government rather then what you prescribe is ridiculous

Biscuit - I can't take a single thing you say in this thread seriously after reading your contributions to the thread on primary school classroom yesterday. The level of cognitive dissonance required is breathtaking.

Come on, where's your "can do" attitude and backbone that you were accusing teachers of not having yesterday?!

I'm really not sure that committing fraud by furloughing workers when there is still work for them to do is particularly selfless either.

@Ballygowenwater no one on this thread is bending guideline
The same guideline requires 2 meters rule. I will be amazed if you can teach me how to do that while looking after kids.

@Biscuit you might not like what the rules are, but you are mistaken . It is not true that only essential workers are allowed to leave home. You can leave home to go to work if your work cannot be done from home. End of. You not liking this (and yes of course all work outside the home involving any contact increases risk) is quite separate from it being against the rules. It's not.

My cleaner's place of the work is MY house, just my house actually, no different to a nanny in fact.
If you pay her as an employee, and she literally only works at your house and nowhere else, go ahead. Perfectly allowable. You can decide you don't want to (even though it would actually be pretty easy to do social distancing while a cleaner was in the house - just move around to use a room she's already cleaned, or pop out for a walk in the middle).

If, however, like other cleaners, she's self-employed and cleans other houses too, then your house is not her place of work.