No tax credits for the third child. Does that mean some women will never be able to work?

[HowFurloughCanYouGo]

I just wondered if someone could explain it to me. I realise I'm being a bit thick.

Imagine someone who is still on tax credits, not UC. They have 5 children, 3 of which were born after the 3rd child cut off date for tax credits.

Single mum and she wants to go to work for the first time since the first child was born (this is a completely fictional person by the way).
If they don't have tax credits for the third fourth and fifth child, does that mean she wouldn't be able to work? Because she wouldn't have money for childcare?

How does that work?

I only have 2dc & don't qualify for CB but this is simply not true

Because if we continue to give hand outs left right and centre why would anyone stop having more and more children...generation after generation

People aren't having children.

"The birth rate in England and Wales is now the lowest it has ever been since records began. Only 11 babies were born for every 1,000 people in 20188, with 657,076 born overall. To put this in perspective, 957,7822 babies were born in 1920 despite the overall population being 22m fewer than it is today."

Im fed up of paying for other peoples kids.I have never been entitled to any t/c or UC.
Given that these children exist and its the parents fault not theirs, would you prefer to see these children living in poverty to save you the tax?

You'd hope so, but unfortunately some really don't.

Some don't, just like some won't stop smoking when diagnosed with lung cancer etc but how many is some?

What happens Op?

Do you already have 5 kids?

Do you currently claim tax credits & being transferred onto UC?

How about thinking how many children you can afford and provide a decent life for??? Who seriously bangs out 5 kids when you're relying on handouts?? Poor children. No one should have 5 kids in this day and age.

Five children is a lot, if I had 5 there is no way I would be able to go back to work.

Is this what this thread is about? This and poor judgements when having a child.

I really don’t want to be paying for people who make poor decisions and then want x number of bedrooms, entitled to this and that.

So many women on here post about being pregnant in totally undesirable circumstances (not just talking financial here) and whenever anyone dares to question whether getting pregnant was really a good idea, it's always a contraceptive failure.

Yes, there's a lot of contraceptive failure on MN. Or this need to have a kid with every 'DP'.

@sotiredwe childcare for 1 child is £1600, 2 children is £3200 (assuming small age gap). Thats like 50% of income. My 2 bed flat cost £400K and the mortgage is £1k per month. After childcare, 20% savings and £1k mortgage, that leaves only £1k per month for utilities, food for 4 people, all bills, service charges. A 3 bed house is £1 million (this is in East Finchley, zone 3) which is unaffordable for £120K combined income.

Giving people who choose to have larger than normal families more money doesn’t necessarily mean the money would be spent on the children. My friend used to be a benefits advisor for people who struggled with money. I was surprised as to how many people put personal needs first and then claimed they didn’t have enough to support the children.

Apologies, didn’t read properly. All benefits except child benefit is cut off.

Rightly so IMO. One of my friends has 8 kids, receives benefits for 6 of them. Pisses me off big time. Never had a job, just relies on benefits! She lives a better life than me & I work full time with 1 DC.

If anybody can afford 5 kids, great!

If you can’t, then don’t!

The rules are very clear. Don't have children you can't afford

Oh do fuck off. What about having children that you can well afford and then not so much because your high-earning husband drops dead?

Life is not static.

It's a myth that millions of people are popping kids out for a life on benefits with no work.

Of the £217 billion spent on welfare payments in 2016-17, around 59 per cent was paid to pensioners, with state pensions the largest single item at £92 billion.

Personal tax credits – mostly for families with children – cost £27 billion and housing benefit – three quarters of which is paid to people of working age – cost £23 billion.

Disability and incapacity-related benefits accounted for a further 8 and 7 per cent of welfare spending respectively.

child benefit (payable for most children from 0 to 18 years of age) at 5 per cent.
Pension credit made up a further 3 per cent of welfare spending.
spending on jobseeker’s allowance – paid to those who are unemployed and meet certain criteria – accounted for only £2 billion or a little under 1 per cent of total welfare spending.

Yes, agree, lots of I fell pregnant, I took the pill and used a condom and still got pregnant and now my partner who I thought was the one after a few months has now disappeared. What can I claim....

Opticaldeluision I'm a very average earning single mum and life insurance is a huge priority for me....

If your high earning husband dropped dead it is very likely he would have had life insurance through his work. That and other policies. People who earn lots are not daft.

We have insurance for both of us. I could easily spend the money on something else but we are sensible
.

@sotiredwe my point is that actually affording DC (1,2 or 5) is difficult. Most people can't afford DC! including a lot of people on mumsnet. So I don't get why they are judging poorer women. Particularly when the birth rate is the lowest it has ever been,

What about having children that you can well afford and then not so much because your high-earning husband drops dead?

If people already claiming benefits weren't deliberately having children they knew they couldn't afford, there would be more money in the pot to help people like this who aren't feckless idiots but genuinely fell on unexpectedly hard times.

Surely someone who has 5 children knows how much childcare is for 5?

Pepper - hear hear!

@desiringonlychild

childcare for 1 child is £1600, 2 children is £3200 (assuming small age gap). Thats like 50% of income.

Have you accounted for tax free savings & the 30 free hours & 2 x maternity leave? Or the cost of a nanny instead?

You could also move, children are expensive but not prohibitive if earning less than 120k.

Sotiredwe, maybe it's got harder in recent years but it was a lifestyle choice for many, for a long time.
That and a bad back, depression and a girl I knew claimed incontinence!

If people already claiming benefits weren't deliberately having children they knew they couldn't afford, there would be more money in the pot

So how much money do you think could be saved?

That and having a partner and pretending they lived separately.

There is still an entitlement to childcare help tax credits for more than 3 children, it's just the other portion you don't get

So how much money do you think could be saved?

No idea tbh, but I bet it's more than we will save by not sending £350m a week to Brussels and kicking out all the Slovakian families with 8 kids.