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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say that making your child eat cigarettes as punishment is abuse?

194 replies

Roostersmum2 · 03/05/2020 21:50

DH has just told me that his brother, about 14 at the time, was forced to eat cigarettes after being caught stealing them from their mums packet. He then added that his gran chimed in and said that she should have made him smoke the whole packet.

DH is virtually no contact with his mum for reasons that are nothing to do with this, but that is abuse isn't it?

OP posts:
TehBewilderness · 04/05/2020 22:34

Some of the male teachers kept their wooden paddle on display on the wall of the classroom. When they used it on the children it was quite obvious that they enjoyed it.

Between the age of 5 and 17 I lived with seven different families in addition to my FOI, family of origin. Only in two of the seven did the adults verbally abuse or strike the children to punish them.

RabidChinchilla · 05/05/2020 02:33

I know someone, a distant relative of an ex, who still washes her kids mouths with soap for swearing.

If we were to class this as abuse I wonder whether women would then statistically be the main abusers of children? It’s an interesting thought.

mathanxiety · 05/05/2020 04:16

peoplewhoannoyyou Mon 04-May-20 09:09:29

It sounds like a good, creative punishment.

No, it's torture, because the person inflicting this 'punishment' watches over a long drawn out period of pain or nausea and overcomes whatever sense of empathy and whatever pricking of conscience they might feel for the duration of the torture. They also have to quell any worry about the possible side effects of the punishment - everyone in those days knew about alcohol poisoning, everyone knew that the first few cigarettes made you feel sick or dizzy or even vomit, and if you didn't believe eating a cigarette or the sensation of a hot chili or chili oil would make someone revolted at the taste of each mouthful and then horribly sick, why choose it as a punishment? Everyone knew (and knows) it wasn't a bowl of ice cream.

People administering these punishments knew what they were doing and were prepared to stand over a child for however long it took to get the job done. I am not condoning smacking, but when it's 'one and done' it's not the choice of a sadist. The other stuff is.

No wonder it wasn't hard to recruit sadists to staff the orphanages and industrial schools and magdalene laundries all over Britain and Ireland. What happened in those godforsaken places was a reflection of what happened in wider society.

mathanxiety · 05/05/2020 04:19

It's also a serious assault inflicted at a remove, with no way for the person inflicting it to get a sense of how severely it is affecting the victim. With smacking or even using a belt or cane the sheer physical effort expended tells the person using their arm how hard each blow is. The sadist making the victim essentially punish him or herself can stand back and watch in cool detachment.

mathanxiety · 05/05/2020 04:43

Eating a cigarette is probably healthier than smoking it because it won't damage the lungs in the same way - just an unpleasant taste, probably stomach ache, and that's that.

@peoplewhoannoyyou

FYI - it's a poison, and if you suspect a child has ingested even as much as a cigarette butt you should contact your local Poison Control Centre immediately.

www.poison.org/articles/2013-jul/my-child-ate-a-cigarette

Nicotine is very poisonous. The amount in only one cigarette butt is enough to poison a child. Other forms of nicotine are also extremely poisonous: cigarettes, cigars, chewing tobacco, pipe tobacco, nicotine gum if chewed by a child, nicotine patches if chewed on by a child, and liquid nicotine used for electronic cigarettes...

...The main active ingredient in cigarettes and other tobacco products is nicotine. Nicotine is highly toxic. As little as 1 milligram (mg) of nicotine, a very small amount, can cause symptoms in an infant. One whole cigarette has 13 - 30 mg of nicotine, while one cigarette butt contains 5 - 7 mg.

The most commonly poisoned children are 6 years old or younger. When children swallow cigarettes or other types of tobacco products, their symptoms will be directly related to the dose of nicotine they received. Nicotine acts in the brain. Mild nicotine poisoning causes nausea, vomiting, dizziness, tremors, sweating and high blood pressure. Severe poisoning can be life-threatening and lead to seizures. Seizures can begin in as little as 20 - 30 minutes.

www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/EmergencyResponseCard_29750028.html

INGESTION EXPOSURE:

<span class="italic">Early phase: nausea, vomiting (emesis), abdominal pain, and increased salivation; fluid build-up in the airways (bronchorrhea); rapid, heavy breathing (hyperpnea); high blood pressure (hypertension), rapid heart rate (tachycardia), and generalized narrowing of the blood vessels (vasoconstriction) with pale skin; and headache, dizziness, confusion, agitation, restlessness, loss of balance and difficulty walking, and visual and hearing (auditory) distortions.</span>
<span class="italic">Late phase: diarrhea (particularly at larger doses); shallow breathing (hypoventilation), no breathing (apnea), low blood pressure (hypotension), slow heart rate (bradycardia), abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), and shock (critically low blood pressure); and loss of normal reflexes (hyporeflexia), loss of normal muscle tone (hypotonia), lethargy, weakness, paralysis, and coma (long-term loss of consciousness).</span>
<span class="italic">Possible burning sensation in the mouth, throat, and stomach.</span>
<span class="italic">Absorption of nicotine by ingestion is not complete because acid in the stomach prevents nicotine from being very well absorbed.</span>

Treatment after ingestion:
(per Centers for Disease Control, US)
[C&P'd -
Immediately remove the patient/victim from the source of exposure.
Ensure that the patient/victim has an unobstructed airway.
Do not induce vomiting (emesis).
Patient/victims often vomit spontaneously.
Only if airway is secured administer charcoal as a slurry (240 mL water/30 g charcoal). Usual dose: 25 to 100 g in adults/adolescents, 25 to 50 g in children (1 to 12 years), and 1 g/kg in infants less than 1 year old.
Do not administer antacids; alkaline conditions improve the absorption of nicotine.
Monitor heart function and evaluate for low blood pressure (hypotension), abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), and reduced respiratory function (respiratory depression).
Evaluate for low blood sugar (hypoglycemia), electrolyte disturbances, and low oxygen levels (hypoxia).
If evidence of shock or low blood pressure (hypotension) is observed, begin intravenous (IV) fluid administration. If fluid administration fails to reverse hypotension, dopamine and norepinephrine may be used.
If seizures occur, treat them with benzodiazepines.
Maintain adequate hydration and urine output.
Seek medical attention immediately.]

Mothership4two · 05/05/2020 06:03

DH had mustard in the mouth for being cheeky not soap. I cannot believe some of the things that were done by MIL. However he is totally accepting and worships his parents.

MIL once filled a bath with cold water and then threw him in it in his school uniform. He then had to walk a mile to -primary- school wet through and spend the whole day like that (not sure why school didn't realise, but they didn't). He laughs about it and says she felt sooo guilty that she met him after school at the gates with a packet of sweets. So she f*ing should have (felt guilty).

None of this was normal to me growing up (late 60's and 70's) and my Mum who grew up working class and poor in the 40's didn't see abuse/punishment in her home, although did at her (Catholic) school

Carolduckingbaskin · 05/05/2020 06:08

If he’s almost 40 and he was 14 - we aren’t talking about the 70’s - we are talking about the nineties - and no being made to eat cigarettes is not fucking normal. Smoking th whole pack was one of those “urban myths” but I don’t know of anyone who would have followed through with it.

Maybelatte · 05/05/2020 07:20

It was quite a common punishment years ago. I know a handful of people who were forced to smoke a pack to make them sick after being caught trying one. None of them smoked as adults so perhaps it worked...

Mittens030869 · 05/05/2020 08:52

@Mothership4two

Victims of abuse often love their abusers. My siblings and I loved our F, although, in my case, that was more the case after he had died, 23 years ago. (He actually made my skin crawl when he was alive, which added to the guilt after he'd died and added to the complex gripes I felt after he'd passed away.)

My DB, however, still idolises his memory, which means that my DSuz and I can't be around him. He has serious MH issues and has always said he has no memory at all of our childhood. (He's 2 years older than me and 4 years older than my DSis, and he participated in the SA, while also a victim; though my F didn't do that, others did).

My DM was a victim of EA at his hands, though I've only understood this as an adult. He was toxic but none of us realised this. In the past, she always attributed his controlling behaviour to his Parkinson's Disease medication.

It's a form of brainwashing and your DH needs to come and see it on his own. It must be really frustrating, though.

Pinkblueberry · 05/05/2020 09:01

I know someone, a distant relative of an ex, who still washes her kids mouths with soap for swearing.

This and the cigarette thing - I can’t imagine any parent doing this unless they got some kind of sick power tripping kick out of it.

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 05/05/2020 09:09

None of them smoked as adults so perhaps it worked

You do realise that the end does not justify the means right?

Not just that, but adverse childhood experiences and trauma ( and the fag thing is more often than not just one example of abuse rather than a one off) increase the risk of the child ending up smoking,drinking,taking drugs plus actually physical consequences like increased risk of diabetes,heart disease etc.

ALovelyBitOfSquirrel · 05/05/2020 09:17

Abuse is abuse, no matter the time it happened. 100 years ago or 10 years ago.
You have to think, if you're ok with what was done or what you have done , would you like it done to you? Probably not. It makes me wonder why some people even had/have DC. To abuse and terrorize them it seems. Some things I've read here have made me cry.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 05/05/2020 10:30

Sorry I accidentally voted YABU Blush

Obviously YANBU

Averyyounggrandmaofsix · 05/05/2020 10:36

My son ate a cigarette off his own bat. I phoned A and E and they said it was safer than smoking it That was the seventies though. He was very young but he never did smoke - and nor did I after that.

OhLook · 05/05/2020 11:07

The stupid thing about the person I know who does it still, is that they only swear because they hear their parents swear.

FlamingoAndJohn · 05/05/2020 12:44

I ate an entire packet of Rothmams in the 70s.
Mother called the doctor who’s response was ‘well she won’t get worms’.

TehBewilderness · 05/05/2020 21:18

You may recall that in the seventies we were still being lied to by the tobacco companies who hired doctors to sell their product. They even perjured themselves in their congressional testimony.
It was a big scandal.

Pixie2015 · 05/05/2020 21:20

Yes totally mean and abusive

MarrowWang · 05/05/2020 21:24

When my mother found out I was drinking and smoking cannabis, she made the ridiculous decision to try and make me ill. She made me drink a litre of vodka, while smoking cannabis..expecting it to make me sick. It didn't. However, her and her boyfriend (who had got the dope to start with..) did the same and ended up passed out!

Yeah I think making someone eat cigs is unreasonable. As is the above treatment, however, it was really fun speaking to them when they finally woke up and asking if their plan went ok!

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