To say that making your child eat cigarettes as punishment is abuse?

[Roostersmum2]

DH has just told me that his brother, about 14 at the time, was forced to eat cigarettes after being caught stealing them from their mums packet. He then added that his gran chimed in and said that she should have made him smoke the whole packet.

DH is virtually no contact with his mum for reasons that are nothing to do with this, but that is abuse isn't it?

Nothing from my childhood has had a damaging effect on me because things were totally different in the 70s/80s and everyone I knew was treated the same. I know how I was treated would now be considered abuse and neglect. I was subjected to some awful punishments for the slightest misdemeanour. My parents used to go to the pub for the day and leave us kids in the car, occasionally throwing us a drink and a bag of crisps. We didn't have car seats, had to passive smoke all the time. Babies in prams were left in the garden all day. I was scared shitless of my parents actually, when I look back.

I think it's great that things have evolved but I do think that we have possibly gone too far the other way now. I see so many spoiled, rude children with no respect for adults whatsoever.

As awful as it it is it won't be the cause of a rise in mental health problems issues in this generation. I was born in the 70s and though I still remember being smacked by a ruler/mouth washed out by soap it was nothing compared to the barbarism of previous generations: the cane/the dunce hat/standing in the corner/ being belted for nothing. My dad was given the cane for crying for his dead mother at school. He was 6. My ex was caned on his first day at school aged 4 for talking in assembly.
The generations before we evacuees and were often treated appallingly, and witnessed bombings at worse.

This reminds me of a mum at the school gates who proudly told other mums that she made her DS eat dog mess after bringing it in the house on his shoe. She was forever known as the dog mess woman.

Surely making somebody eat cigarettes is on a totally different level from smacking them or washing their mouths out with soap or even making them smoke the pack?It is actually poisonous: they could come to serious harm! I really do not think this was common in the 70s- and yes, I am that old.

It's a punishment I remember from the 80s. Clearly not remotely reasonable then or now.

This wasn't necessarily common place regardless of generation, DF is one of 8 siblings, 6 boys (Catholic parents), my grandmother was a tiny frail looking lady, but they all did as she said and neither her nor my grandfather ever laid a finger on any of them this was in the fifties and sixties. Interestingly DF can sew and iron like a demon, grandma said there was no such thing as women's work and made sure none of her sons expected to be looked after by women (DF still does more of the housework than DM and was always much better at plaiting my hair for school). Although grandma was a SAHM and didn't even know who they banked with when my grandfather died. It was a very traditional relationship in terms of household roles, but my grandpa worshipped the ground she walked on and DF said the only time you'd ever see him cross was if one of them had been rude to my grandma.
Physical punishment was very common in schools though DF and his siblings tell many tales about being caned by nuns, having wooden blackboard rubbers thrown at them and DF was dangled out of a classroom window by his ankles for talking in class!

My father & his brother were caught smoking by their Dad & he sat them down on their back porch steps & made them smoke the whole pack of tobacco. They were v.v. sick. Both were aged about 9/10/11 ish & this would have been in the mid-late1930s. He used to laugh about the story, but not sure if he sneaked tobacco again then, but he smoked (lots) during WW2 when he was overseas in Italy & Egypt. Mum refused to marry him - mid 1950's unless he quit.

I smoked while I was at high school (mid 1970s )& my Mum knew but she couldnt prove it - her threat was to put the burning end onto my tongue if she ever caught me - so just made doubly sure she wouldnt. I dont smoke now, havent for nearly 40 yrs.
We used to get the heads banged together thing, whacked on the bum with a 3 foot (sewing measure) ruler, wooden spoons, soap in the mouth etc.
I think its important to take it in the generational context, yes it was abuse, but Im not sure what recourse parents had with huge other stresses to cope with kid behaviour. Through time.

I was subjected to some awful punishments for the slightest misdemeanour.

I'm sorry to hear that, I don't have the insight that some do IRT to how things were back then so it just saddens me to hear things like this

My dad was given the cane for crying for his dead mother at school. He was 6

That is heartbreaking, your poor dad

This reminds me of a mum at the school gates who proudly told other mums that she made her DS eat dog mess after bringing it in the house on his shoe

What a filthy rotten cow, I hope she was reported to social services.

There was absolute uproar on a Facebook group a few months ago because a mum had her 5 year old clean dog poo from the garden as a punishment. That is so mild in comparison

Well yes it is. But it’s how parenting was years ago.

It wasn’t that long ago; it must have been around 1996! I’m in my 60s and have never heard of such a thing. It was definitely abuse that cannot be excused as poor parenting.

However, not noticing her son’s autism would not her son’s autism would not have been so unusual. High functioning autism was not so well known in those days so would have been far less likely to be investigated if there weren’t also serious learning difficulties.

It wasn't 'usual'. I grew up in a large working class family in the early 70s - not once did my parents behave like this to us. They were loving and patient, despite being poor and tired. It's abuse, pure and simple. And it has lasting effects.

yester Your poor dad, a little boy crying for his mum, and to beat him for it. How sad.

I was caned across my palm daily when I was in primary as I didn’t like the school dinners and you had to eat all your school dinners

@PlanDeRaccordement
As a fellow child thumb sucker I can't imagine how horrible that must have been to go through that

Christ, this thread is chilling.

I grew up in the 50s, born in 1948, and never ever had anything like these punishments inflicted on me.

When I was about 10 some friends bought some cigarettes. Someone saw us smoking them in the local park and told all our parents. All that happened to me was a mini lecture from my mum about how disappointed they were that I was seen smoking; didn't do it again.

Having said that we were never smacked either. And as it happens we were really well behaved children. My parents expected a certain level of behaviour but never felt it necessary to ill treat us to achieve that.

I remember one of my DDs being really upset when she came home from being at a friend's house, this must have been around the mid 1990s, because the friend has said something, probably sworn, I can't remember, and the child's mother had put mustard round the child's mouth; vicious way to treat a child.

A distant cousin of mine (second cousin type situation but further down the line than that) was made to smoke a whole pack when he was caught smoking. He also got caught drinking and had to drink a bottle of vodka.

Ick!
I have heard of a teen being made to smoke the whole pack
Also, my brother and my DH were made to mow the lawn - on a summer day in a supremely hot, humid Southern state - after coming home drunk. Not at the same time.

Then, just as now, there was all sorts of parenting.

But it's how parenting was years ago.

Not in my upbringing in the 50s it wasn't. Nor in my children's upbringing in 90s

A whole bottle of vodka could easily kill a child!

Yes, I do feel my mental health has suffered both as a result of physical punishments as a child and the way my autism wasn't recognised.

I also agree previous generations had it worse in terms of punishment, sexual abuse, poverty and attachment problems from the casual way families were separated. I wonder how many of them had hidden MH problems or were emotionally repressed leading to the stiff upper lip.

I was born in the late 60’s, I was threatened with that I would be forced to smoke until I was sick if ever caught smoking, my brother had his mouth washed with soap for swearing at my mum when he was about twelve.
My mother never hit us, my father occasionally did.
However we were both privately educated and both schools had the cane, slipper, teachers throwing things at you. If you didn’t finish a meal, it was brought back for the next one.
My family was middle glass aspirational and yet all the above were considered perfectly normal amongst family and friends. Neighbours were often smacked with the wooden spoon( went to the same schools as my brother and myself).
Whilst I hear what you are saying about the abuse and if it happened now it would be very much considered so, standards and ideals of parenting were very different only a few generations ago.
ASD just wasn’t a Commonly known condition then , I remember when dyslexia was first coming into conversations. Anyone who would have been high functioning would possibly just have been classed as the weird kid, of which there were many , looking back I can see that several were just undiagnosed with a variety of conditions.

I just don’t get it.

I have two small children. I’d walk over hot coals to stop anything bad happening to them.

@TakemedowntoPotatoCity yes the brother who was abused should talk about it... Not his brother telling his wife that he stole something from his mum!!! The wife. Op in this case, didnt need to know that. He can share his own abuse matters with his wife, certainly not his brothers!

These replies are chilling to me too. I'm genuinely sorry you have all been through what you have, even if it was usual back then.

I consider myself very fortunate to have been born in the early 90's when these types of punishments were no longer commonplace.

DH is 36 and physical punishment was very common in his mother's house. His DF is the polar opposite (separated parents) and thankfully he has taken after his dad.

It makes me sad to hear about others autism going undetected. DS is still very young but has got alot of provisions in place, SALT and OT. Paeds input. A specialist nursery. I'm sorry others had to go without the correct support, you deserved better.

my dad always said if he caught us smoking he would make us eat cigarettes but he never did. When my brother was caught smoking he was made to smoke 20 in a row he was around 12 at the time.

My mum used to beat me with kettle cables and bristle brushes. I once had to walk bare foot over broken glass, because it was my fault it broke and I had to go get the broom. I was regularly pinched and slapped in areas that my teachers wouldn't see and told I would be put in care if I was rude. I entirely understand past posters. Abusive, narcissistic parents do make you feel it's your fault