To say that making your child eat cigarettes as punishment is abuse?

[Roostersmum2]

DH has just told me that his brother, about 14 at the time, was forced to eat cigarettes after being caught stealing them from their mums packet. He then added that his gran chimed in and said that she should have made him smoke the whole packet.

DH is virtually no contact with his mum for reasons that are nothing to do with this, but that is abuse isn't it?

It's not great, bit it was years ago when people had different ideas. Just get over it. It's not your battle

This. Those sort of punishments were fairly common in those days. It didn't mean parents didn't love or care about their children, it was just a different time. Why stress about it now?

People stress about it because despite the intention, and often it was anger and frustration of an adult, it left lasting effects. My DDad, almost 90, had tears in his eyes last week recalling a cruel teacher who hit him when he didn't understand I'm sure that helped He couldn't have been a more gentle father to us (70s80s)

It's strange how the same experiences affect different people. My dad was an alcoholic and both he and my mum were heavy smokers. Seeing the destruction it all caused, I have never smoked a single cigarette and am largely teetotal. My brother, however, became a chain smoking alcoholic. I will never understand why.

Luckily they are all dead now so can't cause me any issues anymore. I just try to do my best when it comes to parenting and treat my children the way I would like to be treated.

Massive form of abuse!!

Being forced to eat cigarettes or smoke the whole packet, consume alcohol, and putting chili sauce or oil in the mouth are horrific tortures.

^This! I grew up in the 70s and 80s and punishments like this would have been seen as beyond the pale in the same way it is now.

Smacking was seen as acceptable (teachers used to smack in the classroom) but anything beyond that seriously wasn't.

The cane was still used to administer punishment, but only the headteacher did that. It was hardly ever used, it was more of a deterrent than anything else. I don't think I knew anyone who was caned.

I find it very sad that there are still people saying that we shouldn't be talking about our experiences, or what those close to us went through. It was that attitude that led to the SA that my DSis and I went through at the hands of my F being hidden by the few who knew about it (not my DM, she never knew), and to the memories being repressed and leading to us suffering from PTSD all our lives.

My F is dead, does that mean that the abuse shouldn't be talked about? Both our DHs have been impacted by having had to cope with our pain. The OP must have been seriously impacted by hearing about such torture and where better to talk about it than in an anonymous forum? Better than talking to family in RL surely??

We were also smacked a lot by both my F and DM. I don't see my DM's actions as having been meant to be abusive (she was beaten as a child), but she did it in anger regularly and it meant that we were afraid of her. It played a part in us not feeling able to tell her what else was having at home. (She asked why we didn't tell her.)

It sounds like a good, creative punishment. It's disgusting, but then so is smoking. Eating a cigarette is probably healthier than smoking it because it won't damage the lungs in the same way - just an unpleasant taste, probably stomach ache, and that's that.

Sorry I'm on the app and have a terrible memory but to the poster who had her mum stop her sucking her thumb with chilli oil - I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I sucked my thumb until I was about 13 and he's it damaged my teeth. I didn't have braces and I have wonky teeth but my family, friends and husband don't care. You mum was awful to you and it's brought a tear to my eye thinking about how you must have felt. I have a little boy now and I can't ever imagine taking something away from him that gives him comfort.

Some people just shouldn't be parents.

Talking about is actually incredibly important and for you, hopefully healing

In contrast to my DD, my FIL was beaten badly for ducking school and admitting it. To which he said 'Well I didn't do it again', to which I said 'Or you might have thought I won't tell the truth again!' He hit his own DC as discipline and it has caused damage. Different temperaments and life experiences mean it effects people differently.

Anyone interested in this subject, and its extremes and healing beyond it, The Boy who was raised as a dog is an excellent read and really underlines how so often it's lack of knowledge and support that brings about often dire consequences.

Absolutely abuse.
I know a lady who worked with homestead for a while, one of the families Mother often put washing up liquid in the kids mouths to stop swearing. When the case went to Child Services, the lady I know said it wasn't even noted down as an issue, to which I was astounded. I mentioned it yo several other friends who said that people parent differently and they didn't think it was that bad. I wondered whether I was being overly sensitive at the time, but my gut still tells me it's abuse.

Homestart*

What is a good punishment peoplewhoannoyyou? One that stops a behaviour? Op says bil is a smoker, it didn't work! So often punishment used as a showing of power. A pp referenced time out, described by a well known Irish psychologist as an emotional slap, worth thinking about all those Super Nanny fans.

It sounds like a good, creative punishment. It's disgusting, but then so is smoking. Eating a cigarette is probably healthier than smoking it because it won't damage the lungs in the same way - just an unpleasant taste, probably stomach ache, and that's that.

And this is why I have a minimum of not sympathy but maybe understanding of abuse in the past.

If someone in this day and age , with all the information at their fingertips thinks like this what expectations can you have from people raised in abusive environments, that received advice how to keep abusing their children to "keep them in line" etc?

However it was abusive and happening today, a year ago or 50 years ago doesn't change that.

If we were to class this as abuse then it potentially changes the accepted demographic of historical abusers as many mothers now fit this criteria.

Historical? It was the mid 1990s, not the 19th century! Of course it was abuse!

My mum revealed to her mother that she was being sexually abused by her father and his friends, for her courage she had her mouth washed out with soap and was told to never speak of it again so she didn't. Strangely, in much later life after much treatment mum forgave both her mother and her father, I am not sure I could've done but she says she had to forgive them in order to forgive herself. Sadly mum grew to be an abusive parent herself but only towards me (I have the same colouring as my grandfather) and my brother, our sister was the golden child.

Absolutely abuse. I’m so sorry for everyone who had abusive and neglected childhoods. It fucks up
your whole life and takes years to unravel. None of us deserved it. Not one.

^I grew up in the 70s and 80s and punishments like this would have been seen as beyond the pale in the same way it is now.

Smacking was seen as acceptable (teachers used to smack in the classroom) but anything beyond that seriously wasn't.^

I grew up in the 50s and 60s and would agree totally with the above.

Meh not something I could get worked up about now, it was 40 years ago and things were different. Doesn't make it right doesn't make it wrong.

Yes it is abuse but then these sorts of things were very common in the 1950,s . Attitudes change, and they will again.

It sounds like a good, creative punishment. It's disgusting, but then so is smoking.

She obviously didn’t find it that disgusting as it was her cigarettes he was smoking. It was an exercise in control and didn’t work as a deterrent. It was abuse.

it was 40 years ago and things were different. Doesn't make it right doesn't make it wrong.

It was only 26 years ago and things really weren’t all that different then!

Doesn't make it right doesn't make it wrong.

So where do we draw the line?
At what point does past abuse become wrong? Death? Permanent damage , physical,mental or emotional?

When my DM was a young child she bit her older sister so my DGM bit her back to ‘teach her a lesson’! DGM also washed her sisters mouth out with soapy water when she heard her swearing.

My DFs father used to hit him and his siblings with a belt.

Lots of things happened years ago that would never be tolerated now.

Yes, this is abusive. But honestly, a lot of punishments were/are abusive, especially those that came from something that happened to a previous generation.
I was a child of the late 80s/90s, and some of the punishments I subsequently heard about from my contemporaries are horrible. For instance, my friends husband would be taken out to the garage by his dad and hit with one of those garden canes. Another friend of a friend would be draped over an ironing board for a spanking, so if she wiggled too much, she'd fall off and hurt herself worse...
I thought I had it bad, being chased up the stairs with a slipper!
This is the generation with kids now... I hope this sort of thing doesn't happen any more, but I suspect it does.