To be very concerned that Boris Johnson said this

[Worriedmum54321]

From the Guardian:
Responding to the argument that a more stringent lockdown should have been imposed sooner, he said: “Don’t forget, it’s a very very demanding thing to ask a population to do – very tough – and so I think it was completely right to make our period of lockdown coincide as far as possible with the peak of the epidemic.”

Alot was advised well before

Was it?

The only advice was wash your hands.

@chomalungma I came in with low expectations so he did better than I expected. We all make mistakes, it was a massive ask completely unexpected. And as a business owner, I'm very surprised by how well we're being supported.

@Sostenueto, that's so sad, your poor DGD. It must be such a worry for you all.

People have all sorts of opinions about things we cannot know - why not leave it to the scientists? Aren't we all in the best hands that way?

I would agree with this if we knew who and what the scientists were advising.
Some Scientists who have been on SAGE have said similar.

Chris Whitty apparently told the govt that releasing elderly patients into the care home system would result in many deaths, he was ignored & 1000s have died inc many Care workers.

We cannot just blindly follow the Govt's line when it flies in the face of what the RoW is doing... many posters on MNs were saying this in feb/march and tbh so were many of the general public.

@PerkingFaintly EXACTLY.

But no journalist listened to this and challenged him on just how illogical this statement is.

I have come across people (usually men) like Johnson many, many, many, times in my life. They rely on the assumption that, if they say things with enough conviction, people will just believe them and not question. Having one such man as our PM is just so worrying; I’m genuinely frightened.

Spouting nonsense like this in his confident, posh voice has meant that he has - almost literally in this case - been able to get away with murder.

He has the deaths of countless people on his hands, caused by poor decisions he made. And they ARE his to make. I am a lawyer and so, like the scientists in this scenario, have expertise which I have used, in my career, to advise public figures to help them make sensible decisions. I can say “The law says x; that suggests you should do y”. But, ultimately the decision is THEIRS.

I have a pretty good idea what Johnson is like and I have no doubt that he will blame the scientists for this monumental balls-up. He’s that kind of character and probably has been allowed to be from childhood - nothing is ever his fault.

Maybe there's an opportunity for a 'people's question' at the Daily Briefing.
PM - the height of the peak is related to the time the lockdown was imposed. Not the other way round. How do you think you could have reduced the height of the peak and the timing of that height?"

I am relieved they didn't lockdown sooner.
The lockdown causes huge harms, too.
I can't agree with anyone who thinks this situation meant simple decisions.

I agree with all the above but fully understand why others have different views. It's a seriously complex situation.

It’s been pretty much a learning curve as it’s progressed. It’s easy with hindsight to say what should have been done. A lot of people in the early days down played it and thought even early actions put in place were over the top. Next time something happens like this, and it will, we will be better prepared for what should be done and will react quicker. The government have had to plan day by day to what’s happening, and I don’t think they’ve played it bad at all.

Why are people still banging on about perceived mistakes that no one can do anything to change.
I want to know what the angry and indignant want the end of lockdown to look like. So when Boris announces the easing we can see if MN predictions are correct. Without the benefit of hindsight.

I liken the lockdown and it’s impact on the economy to pulling a plaster off a cut.

Do it quickly (in the lockdown scenario, this means early, when numbers of cases and reproduction rate is still very low) and there is immediate sharp pain: but that pain should subside more quickly.

Do what Johnson did and do it slowly, fannying about with the plaster and feeling every agonising sensation as the plaster catches on the scab and hairs etc, and it’s a lot more painful in the long run.

I agree it's concerning because it demonstrates that he doesn't understand what he's talking about. He has a reputation for not understanding/or not bothering about the detail and bluffing his way through stuff while delegating what he can. But you'd think he'd try a bit harder with something so important. If he isn't yet well enough to understand stuff he needs to hand over to someone who is.

I would like to believe the government and Sage but I just don’t trust them. But that makes no difference. When Johnson talks I just hear a posh waffling noise. I have never heard so many sentences being spoken with so little content. It’s funny how people listen and take someone seriously because they have a posh voice.

It's funny how everyone thinks they're an expert in this! Truth is that only scientists have any idea what might have happened or what is happening. Even then, there are so many unknowns.

Too many people too are letting their antipathy against the government colour their opinion on what should have happened and who is to blame. We are where we are.

Interesting that a lot of people aren't quite picking this up. I've noticed that humans in general are often very poor at untangling cause and and effect.

Isn’t this a scientific literacy issue. And it’s probably not helped that the general standard of science reporting in the uk media is poor.

It was so obvious, at least one journalist should have pulled him up on it, but I don’t know how much difference that would have made to those who believe in Boris however big or obvious the mistake.

It’s funny how people listen and take someone seriously because they have a posh voice.

And it's funny how many people won't listen for the very same reason!

@Livelovebehappy that learning curve needed to match the exponential curve of new cases.

The government needed to get to grips with the advice quickly. That takes hard work and dedication - Johnson is also notoriously lazy and that’ll be an issue in a situation like this where there will be many complicated briefing papers flying about. He’s expected to read and digest those and I really, really doubt he did the half of what he should have.

I don’t expect him to have done everything perfectly, but he has just got far too much wrong.

Bottom line: Johnson wanted all the glory of being “World King” with none of the hard work.

Why are people still banging on about perceived mistakes that no one can do anything to change

Because TBH - it shows him and his Government for the kind of complacent fools they are. And they are in charge of our lives.

Why aren't they publishing the scientific advice? Opening up the conversation.

We should have locked down earlier. Mass gatherings should not have been going ahead in mid March. We should have ensured PPE was available to all health workers. Boris and co did none of the above and we’re on course for the highest death rate in Europe. Not sure why so many on here think he has done such a great job! It’s not like we had no idea what could happen / we had poor Italy as an example. There will be an inquiry ... but that’s for later. In the meantime they need to sort PPE NOW ... if they don’t, this virus will keep spreading and more people will die unnecessarily. It’s the least we can expect from those in charge.

We are where we are

And do you trust the Government to take us to where we need to be, given their track record?

@Jaxhog

And it's funny how many people won't listen for the very same reason!

What does that even mean? I’ll listen to anyone whose track record shows me I should listen, posh voice or not. But posh voices spouting utter tripe? The elongated vowels don’t mask the complete garbage for me because I have a couple of brain cells to rub together.

I am looking forward to PMQs next week.
It's very different without a baying backbench.

With the “posh voice” comments, this is exactly why that slimy Tony Bliar was so deadly, except he was much better at the act than bumbling Boris. People believed him because he said “we must go to war because there are weapons of mass destruction” with such conviction and assurance. It is how he literally got away with mass murder, and other dirty work such as the Blair Rich project. Since then, I’ve disbelieved politicians almost as a matter of principle, which makes me all the angrier about having to obey Bojo.

Also, I’ve said it before, but the sensationalist media reporting that we’re plagued with has a similar effect. The media lie and wildly exaggerate all the time, crying wolf about things that are going to kill us; I’m begrudging having to believe a lot of what they’re saying right now.

I think as government they have done more right actually.
We didn’t shut down the country for any other new pandemic so it’s an absolute gamble either way.
There has always been good government communication from hand washing to lockdown and the daily briefings.
There’s been no panic or emotional blackmail ( aside from support the NHS rhetoric, but that’s sort of what flattening the curve is about).
Lockdown has been measured, neither too draconian or too lax.
Financial support was announced swiftly and appears adequate and equatable.
Problems such as PPE are openly discussed and addressed.

Lockdown could not have been done earlier. The general public were very sceptical in the early days that the situation was dangerous enough to warrant anything drastic, and would not have co-operated as much as they did when it was introduced later. Not everything has been executed perfectly, but did people really think it would? I think the majority of what’s been done has been very good. From day 1, plans were put in place to help workers and businesses. The only issue which fell short was PPE and testing, which they’ve now tried to improve. My opinion now is that the vulnerable and their live in family need to continue to self isolate, and the rest need to get back to normal life, because the downfall of the economy will lead to greater problems than the virus itself. The government need to make a firm plan now for easing the lockdown.

@Alondra

Could people stop regurgitating the same shit they read weeks ago on a DM headline? I can't talk about Italy but Spain's official count include care homes...

Does it?

I should have been more precise that the numbers for Spain include some of the care home deaths but I have not taken my info from the DM headlines. I usually rely on more credible sources:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52188820

Care homes across Western Europe have been ravaged by coronavirus and in Spain alone there have been more than 16,000 deaths, many around the capital Madrid. The true number may never be known, but families are asking why so many of their elderly relatives were lost.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/30/coronavirus-deaths-how-does-britain-compare-with-other-countries?CMP=share_btn_tw

Every country has different ways of recording Covid-19 deaths: the large number of deaths in care homes have not featured in Spain’s statistics....

FT analysis of excess deaths (which is probably the most objective measure) shows that numbers in Spain have gone up by 72% (UK is 52%). Of course, even this estimate is only a snapshot in time and we will only know the true picture when the pandemic is finally over.