Child maintenance during lockdown

[Idratherbeasleep]

So I got a text from the cms today saying payments are going down to £6.87 a week of something down from £50, DC's dad is self employed I think, has been fiddling his earnings for years. I've been furloughed so am 20% down already, luckily we can still get by, it will be tight though. I get people aren't working to earn money but I feel a bit annoyed that it seems to be the resident parents who are left in the shit in a sense. And yes before you jump on me I get he has Bills to pay too and isn't earning anything, but. I am paying more having DC at home constantly in food, bills etc. Still need clothes and shoes. He's had years of working FT all the hours he can (literally) only declaring a small amount now has a mortgage while I've only been able to work minimum wage/flexible jobs because I cant afford childcare. Like I said luckily we will get by but aibu to think they need to come up with a plan for this? I mean I know people who do rely on maintenance to feed/clothe their kids and if the nrp is able to just call up cms and say I'm not working I cant pay with no questions surely lots of kids are really going to suffer?

It’s a difficult one, I really do feel for you.

From the other side my partner is losing a large part of his income due to corona. He will have to reduce payments to ex because he simply cannot continue to pay what he was paying (above the required amount) as he has a mortgage, utility bills etc etc himself. He is not able to get UC because he still earns over a threshold and it’s a contracted role so no furlough etc.

Whilst he doesn’t want to reduce payments what choice does he have?

This of course isn’t the same as someone who has fiddled their books for years or paid next to nothing. I’m talking about genuine nrp’s who through no fault of their own are now in the shit and simply can’t meet the previously agreed amounts.

Lots of ppl struggling in all different ways

It's not just men that don't pay for their kids!

It is mainly men that don’t pay for their children. Please don’t try to minimise a very real problem that effects mainly women, puts many children into poverty and is often used as a way to continue to economically abuse their other child’s parent for the sake of the ‘NAMALT’ argument. Don’t try to silence us.

Idrather, if your ex was self-employed and lost his earnings, he is not getting anything yet- HMRC will start paying 80% in July, according, what the person's average earning were in the last 3 years. If he was fiddling with his earnings, he will not get much.
If he is on UC, you will get even less than now.
You can only blame your ex. HMRC, CSA and others only work with what your ex tells them.

It's not just men that don't pay for their kids!

Oh, good we have a "women do it tooooooo" type.

Let me spell it out for you. More than 9/10 single parent families are headed up by women. The debt of child maintenance is in the region of £3.9 billion.

Now tell me how this isn't an issue that mainly affects women and why its relevant that a minute proportion of women allegedly don't pay for their children.

I think if people were actually forced to pay and it was followed through by cms a whole lot of kids would be better off.

As I have said I get people not working atm still have bills/rent to pay but my outgoings havent really gone down by much just petrol everything else is the same.

I guess my point is if I lost my job tomorrow I'd have to use the small amount of savings I have to pay for my kids, but as a nrp it's not expected or even checked if it's possible. Also as a PP said some people can say they aren't working and still be.

As a system its massively flawed I guess that was my point..

@changeMeAlready exactly that. It might shoot him in the foot that he wont get much because he's fiddled his books but it also means whilst fiddling his books he's been in a position to save money he hasn't declared. I dont know how they fix people fiddling the system but I imagine if they did there would be a whole lot more money going to the kids that deserve it

It's not just men that don't pay for their kids!

Define “pay for their kids”.

If we’re counting earned income, what about Sahp, or single parents on benefits, or parents who choose not to work? Or those who lose their jobs?

What’s the difference between an nrp who loses their job due to CV and can’t contribute their kids, and a man (or woman) co-habiting with their child’s other parent who loses their job due to cv and can’t pay for their kids?

It’s too complicated. If the government started subbing for nrp who don’t pay, do they top up anyone with kids and only one income? Like pp pointed out, in the case of widows, will they also recieve a “nrp” payment?

Where does it stop?

Well, this is what the CMS does. You're obliged to pay for your children and they have the power to take money directly from benefits or earnings.

It's what CMS should do

It's what CMS have the powers to do

It's not always what they actually do

@Thatbitchcarolebaskin Have you spoken to the welfare unit about him?

CMS were hopeless with my Ex. However it turns out that his CO has a major downer on people who don't pay for their kids. One sniff of a threat to his career progression and suddenly he was paying regular!

My little boy is nearly 5. His father has never paid and changed jobs constantly so that the Cms can't take any money. He owes my little boy thousands and the CMS do nothing. They just keep setting up DOE which takes months. He has another child on his case that he pays for so I don't understand why they can't find him. If these men are furloughed they get 80% of wage so they should pay the same as the drop has to be 25% before they reassess.
It is a stupid argument to saying they have no money they cannot pay because they clearly have money from somewhere to survive.
I totally agree that as the parent that does care about our children we would do anything to make sure they have what they need. The CMS need to be tougher and act quicker to make sure children get what they deserve.

It's really sad that so many children are missing out on the treats they could have with this money.

Huge sympathies. I haven’t had CM for a month because ex was furloughed. He never paid a lot anyway but I’ve felt the hit without it, especially given how much food the DC are getting through at home!

I have no idea when he will get paid and when I asked him he seemed to say he doesn’t know either despite news outlets all saying furloughed staff will be paid ‘by the end of April’ so tomorrow latest...

@aeris1 that's a good point I hadn't even though about the fact income has to change by 25% it's wrong them let them get away with it for so long especially while paying for other children.

@Umnoway dont talk to me about food consumption, the constant moaning for food, snacks and treats is driving me mad. I was missing half of last months pay check because of furlough money but I've still had to buy food to feed the kids.. funny how its sympathy for them and their bills but none for us! Like I said if anything its costing more having dc at home!

@lyralalala I wouldn’t even know how to find out who his WO is? Do you know how I could find out? I know where he is supposedly based and what he supposedly does though.

Do you think they would listen- Especially as the MoD confirmed to the CMS they they are unable to send over any money due to how circumstances? Do you know what those circumstances could be? (An instance where the MoD are ‘unable’ to take money, not refuse?) do they ever do non payment as punishment or anything?

@thatbitchcarolebaskin I know some parts of the military are better than others at complying with CMS than others. If you know where he's based then you could probably find his regiment/unit and ask their welfare office for their policy generally first.

I know the army used to be able to override CSA claims for "morale" reasons, especially if a claim was put in near or during a deployment, but I'm sure a stop was put to that.

Your other option is to speak to your MP. Ask them to take up the case to find out why.

My ex has made his own arbitrary decision to cut maintenance by 1/3. He's furloughed and I suspect his employer is topping him up to 100%. He also earns freelance and doesn't declare it. I've raised it with the CMS and their website says they aren't pursuing non paying parents at the minute which I think is a disgrace. Yes it may take time and I understand that but to just decide not to bother is ridiculous! I've raised it with my MP but I doubt he will do more than send me a load of Tory waffle. I don't rely on it but things certainly tighter as a result especially as I am still working full time so have all my usual work expenses plus the additional expenses with lockdown.
I'm like a dog with a bone though and I will be on at the CMS and my MP as much as I can for them to actually fulfil their obligations and in turn make sure he does.

It is a stupid argument to saying they have no money they cannot pay because they clearly have money from somewhere to survive.

You could easily use that argument in reverse 🤔

Plainly both parties have basic living costs, kids included.

How can you argue it in reverse? The none resident parent should pay towards the upbringing of their children whether they see them or not. Their children should be part of their basic living costs shouldn't they? That is why the CMS work out a percentage on their taxable earnings and they are supposed to pay it. They only work out the minimum anyway. It should not matter what the resident parent earns or what money they have that cares for their children.

Because the poster is saying they clearly have money to survive from somewhere, despite a drop in income.

You could easily say RP clearly have money to survive, despite a drop in CMS.

I haven’t made any of the assertions you’ve suggested and attempted to correcr. I was merely commenting that the argument the poster used, referred to above wasn’t a particularly strong one.

You have my sympathies! My ex is a conniving turd who seems to think I use the maintenance he gives me for OUR children to wash myself in champagne. Within 2 minutes of the announcement of lockdown he said he needed to knock his money down. Before anyone boo hoo hoos over him paying his bills he earns in the top 2% of the country. He is just a twat.

@TriangleBingoBongle I can cover my living costs yes with my savings, the money a put away by working extra hours so if my washing machine breaks or my cooker i can replace it. Not to feed my kids because him having less money is more important than me..

opticaldelusion
How do you establish a non-payer? If someone declares this in earnings but actually earns that, how is that found out?

A NRP declares £500 a month in earnings and maintenance is duly calculated. Other parent thinks this is unlikely to be the full picture. Then what? They tell CMS? What do CMS do? Put a private detective on them? Demand access to their bank accounts and all outgoings? How much will this cost to investigate? What about vexatious reportings?

Well if its anything like how they handled me telling them my ex was lying then it will be up to the RP to provide proof. Ex told CMS he had moved in with his DP and her DC so a reduction in maintenance was applied. He wasn't living with her at all as her benefits would be reduced if he did. If the CMS and the benefits office just tallied up the info then they would have seen that either ex or his DP were lying. But apparently I had to prove he was living somewhere other than where he told them. The screenshot of the text he sent me by accident saying "I'm back at my flat now and missing you" wasn't enough apparently

The CMS are shit and it's far too easy for NRPs to dodge paying what they should.

To the pp who said their outgoings had gone down, I can assume you don't have children? My food bill has gone up by a third because of 2nd breakfasts, snacks etc. That hugely outweighs the £5 a week I'm saving by not taking them swimming. Surely if the RP is told not to rely on that money the same should be true of the nrp.. Ie they should take off the cms amount before they buy or rent a house, enter into car payment agreements etc. Adjust their life expenditure assuming that cms money is gone, spoken for, inviolate. If it means going without treats, or gadgets or a holiday, so be it. It's what RPs do every day. Also someone said upthread that many ros don't pay for their children because they are on benefits.. There's a whole other thread right there about childcare costs, logistical impossibilities of working as a sole parent if you have no family support or your child has additional needs. An NRP has none of those constraints, they can work extra jobs, longer hours, seek promotion, study for qualifications all unburdened by weekday childcare responsibilities. Their financial contribution should be as strictly enforced as council tax.

It’s an absolute disgrace that one parent is left with the hardship , would he agree to more custody and shouldering the weight more in lieu of money since he’s at home doing nothing ? I imagine probably not if he’s the kind to cut his kids money first chance he gets .

@HugeAckmansWife my family keep telling me how wonderful it is that all our outgoings have gone down and how we can save loads for our upcoming holiday. When I said my outgoings have increased I was basically told I must be doing something wrong

@HugeAckmansWife 👏🏻 perfectly said.