Child maintenance during lockdown

[Idratherbeasleep]

So I got a text from the cms today saying payments are going down to £6.87 a week of something down from £50, DC's dad is self employed I think, has been fiddling his earnings for years. I've been furloughed so am 20% down already, luckily we can still get by, it will be tight though. I get people aren't working to earn money but I feel a bit annoyed that it seems to be the resident parents who are left in the shit in a sense. And yes before you jump on me I get he has Bills to pay too and isn't earning anything, but. I am paying more having DC at home constantly in food, bills etc. Still need clothes and shoes. He's had years of working FT all the hours he can (literally) only declaring a small amount now has a mortgage while I've only been able to work minimum wage/flexible jobs because I cant afford childcare. Like I said luckily we will get by but aibu to think they need to come up with a plan for this? I mean I know people who do rely on maintenance to feed/clothe their kids and if the nrp is able to just call up cms and say I'm not working I cant pay with no questions surely lots of kids are really going to suffer?

[lyralalala]

There's a difference between telling someone they shouldn't rely on maintenance and thinking that's ok

I tell everyone I know to never, ever, ever rely on maintenance

I also make sure people know what powers CMS do have that they could use if they were remotely interested in doing so

I'm also openly critical of the two relatives I know shirk maintenance. That's one of the big things. Once people get openly critical and shame the NRP's they know who shirk payment it'll be a much more pressing issue

Atm it is far more common to hear someone say "Oh his ex is a money grabbing bitch" than it is to hear someone say "Oh I'd never date him, he doesn't pay a penny for his kids"

[lyralalala]

Like drink driving it needs to become socially shameful to dodge paying for your kids

[Idratherbeasleep]

It's a bit sad isn't it that you're deemed 'lucky' if the person who helped create a child with you contributes financially. Not sure why in society not paying for your kids is so acceptable?

[Willyoujustbequiet]

The whole system needs an overhaul. Its not considered important because its virtually always women left in the shit by feckless men.

There needs to be sanctions for non payers like loss of a driving licence like other countries.

[opticaldelusion]

I think it should be compulsory to pay for your kids and followed through by the government

Well, this is what the CMS does. You're obliged to pay for your children and they have the power to take money directly from benefits or earnings.

This won't stop people hiding their income though. Then what do you do?

[WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo]

In fairness a lot of you're outgoings will have stopped ........ we're on 80% too yet I've still managed to save a load of money and will carry on saving as much as possible because so is likely to have no job after this.

As a self employed person he probably hasn't seen any money yet. A lot haven't. And I know far too many who have put their health at risk taking any job that comes out of desperation. Food bank usage in our town has shot up, previously self employed people are now reliant on charity.

I'm sure he is a test, but he hasn't dreamed this up to piss you off. And.you certainly aren't the only one in a.shit, situation.

[TriangleBingoBongo]

Pretty shit. But I suppose it’s swings and roundabouts. Most people have fluctuations in their earnings. It’s never a good time whether it’s NRP or RP.

He can’t have been fiddling completely his books if he needed a mortgage. You can typically borrow 4x your earnings so he’ll have had to declare fair earnings to make borrowing viable to buy. So I’m not sure that part is quite true.

[opticaldelusion]

The responses on this thread are really disappointed

I think people are just realistic that the system is far from perfect but that there are no easy solutions.

What would you propose?

[opticaldelusion]

There needs to be sanctions for non payers like loss of a driving licence

How do you establish a non-payer? If someone declares this in earnings but actually earns that, how is that found out?

A NRP declares £500 a month in earnings and maintenance is duly calculated. Other parent thinks this is unlikely to be the full picture. Then what? They tell CMS? What do CMS do? Put a private detective on them? Demand access to their bank accounts and all outgoings? How much will this cost to investigate? What about vexatious reportings?

The idea that there are simple solutions that will prove cost-effective is naive. If someone wants to play the system, they will.

[formerbabe]

The fact that some men simply walk away from their DC not (or barely) contributing financially to their upbringing should be seen as child abuse in my eyes

Absolutely agree. It's neglect. A rp would be neglectful if they didn't buy their dc food, clothes etc so surely the nrp should be held to the same standard.

[Thatbitchcarolebaskin]

Just had a 2 year battle to get the CMS to fill in a deductions of earnings request correctly, to find out the military can’t send any money over due to his ‘circumstances’ .

The CMS is not fit for purpose and until non resident parents take some pride in themselves and financially contribute a fair amount towards their children, what can you do? It’s utterly shit.

[TriangleBingoBongo]

The CMS do check tax returns to base maintenance on so it’s not fair to say they don’t check.

Tax dodging is obviously a crime in itself too.

I’m not saying it’s a perfect system. Clearly it isn’t.

[Herja]

Are you sure they're not checking? Ex was made redundant and they definitely checked his. I am certain, because they sent me a letter saying they couldn't process due to insufficient evidence, then a new one 2 days later saying evidence was now processed and I'm entitled to £0 (ex has them more than 52 nights per year, so not even £5 pw). This was about a week and a half, maybe 2, weeks ago.

[MarieQueenofScots]

What we should do is make it socially unacceptable not to pay.

As a society we accept very easily fathers walking away and not giving a shit about their children.

[Somerville]

£6.87 a week Imagine if that's all you spent towards your DC's upbringing each week, OP. You'd be arrested for child neglect. It's appalling that NRP's can get away with no proper contribution to their progeny's upbringing.

There should be a loan system, for NRP's who can't afford half of their child's upbringing. So the RP gets the contribution they need up front, and the NRP ultimately has to pay it back to the tay payer. Quickly enough then, the government would start proper checks of affordability and enforcement.

[namechangerrrrrrr]

Op I literally just posted more or less the same thing.
Frustrating because I know full well he's fiddling his money.
It's just the principle.

[Bbang]

@Triangle it’s most likely very true, fair earnings for a mortgage are about 1/3 of what my ex actually earns. He fiddled the rest into a separate company in order to slash his payments. He then thought it was great to make his girlfriend the owner of said company and pays the profits through that and pays himself £5000 per year yet lives in a 4 bed with his sports cars parked outside and goes to Vegas and Dubai every year.

Apparently the pennies he pays me (literally) means he’s making payments so as far as the CMS are concerned they have no issues with him.

He also chooses to not see his son but is dad of the year to her kids

[Thatbitchcarolebaskin]

@Somerville I’ve thought similar.

Unpaid child maintenance isn’t even classed as a debt- you have to wait for the CMS to pull their fingers out of their arse to apply to court to have it made into an official debt. I think it’s ridiculous as I would happily pay a debt collector a % for collection but I’m unable to do so. The CMS are not enforcing any unpaid maintenance atm and the military won’t comply with the request so I’m literally stuck.

The loan system is a great idea. I also think that if the CMS has calculated an amount for maintenance and the paying parent doesn’t pay then the CMS should pay the RP and chase the paying parent directly for repayment; at least then you’d know know enforcing paying for child maintenance as strictly as they do for council tax.

[TriangleBingoBongo]

@bbangs.

Obviously it depends on the value of the property. Seems unlikely that it would be worthwhile to borrow 4x a very low salary. Especially given house prices. Also in the absence of a GF who’s earnings are also taken into account.

[TriangleBingoBongo]

A CMS loan system sounds good but would then be tax payer funded, so not sure anyone would get on board with that.

[elizabethrose]

My issue with this is that no checks are being made. My dad lives across the road from my ex and he's getting up and leaving for work every morning. Yet he's told the CSA that he's been furloughed and won't receive any monies until June so they've me they have stopped the payments. He's already £18 k in arrears, they should at least make a quick call to his employer to check before agreeing to a payment holiday.

[Kitcat47]

It's not just men that don't pay for their kids!

[Littleelffriend]

The flip side of this though, is that the cms don’t recalculate quickly enough. My partner pays almost £1000 per month through the cms for his 2 children. Fine. Except he’s had a 25 percent pay cut and phoned the cms a month ago. They have yet to send a letter to confirm how much he should pay and it’s due on Friday. And his ex declares not earning anything but works 30 hours a week cash in hand, so is committing benefit fraud as well.

[Somerville]

A CMS loan system sounds good but would then be tax payer funded, so not sure anyone would get on board with that.

I think a strong argument could be made that it would cost the tax payer less in the long term.
It would drastically slash the amount of children in poverty, and therefore the cost of interventions and support. More NRP's would pay upfront, when they realised that this would now be properly enforced and that interest would accrue in the meantime. And because those NRP's couldn't turn their back financially on one set of kids, they're less likely to have more children in new relationships, unless they could actually afford it.

The loan should never be written off, and taken out of inheritances, and their estates, if necessary. Those who claim not to earn enough to make loan payments should face sanctions such as losing driving license and passport so they can't live it up cash in hand.

[formerbabe]

It's not just men that don't pay for their kids!

It mainly is.