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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What impact will the current health issue have on vaccine hesitant/refusing parents?

169 replies

HowFurloughCanYouGo · 29/04/2020 09:58

You would hope that those who are vaccine hesitant or refuse vaccinations for their children will now understand what happens when a diseases is out of control and in desperate need for a preventative vaccination.

Do you think after this is over, it will improve vaccination uptake?

Or do you think those who refuse the MMR etc will also refuse the idea of covid19 vaccination and carry on as usual?

I'm currently writing a dissertation on vaccine uptake (or lack-thereof) so this really interests me. I really look forward to the literature that comes out over the next few years to show how things have (or have not!) changed.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 01/05/2020 21:50

ZombieFan is correct. Doesn't matter if you are the President of the United States or Ms Imsofuckingspecial . You're still stupid.

MissConductUS · 01/05/2020 22:52

This article about the challenges of producing a vaccine is pretty good:

slate.com/technology/2020/05/vaccine-timeline-coronavirus.html

The article points out that we don't have a SARS vaccine is that the funding dried up when the disease spread abated. That's unlikely with coronavirus given where the pandemic has spread. The fact that we have about 70 vaccine candidates is good, because on average only about 16% pass efficacy and safety reviews.

1555CC · 01/05/2020 23:19

It is healthy to be challenged and constantly check yourself and your beliefs especially around something so controversial.

Controversial, in the same way as the Earth not being flat is controversial?

There's nothing remotely controversial about vaccines. Just evidence on one side, and morons on the other.

june2007 · 01/05/2020 23:29

So I am a Moron for being cautios of giving my child an immunisation that could cause a seazure.? Right got it.

MissConductUS · 01/05/2020 23:56

So I am a Moron for being cautios of giving my child an immunisation that could cause a seazure.?

It's fine to be aware of risks but you need to put them in context. The vaccine related risk of febrile seizures is very, very low and for the very small number of patients who get them there is no discernible long term effect.

Seizure Risk with Vaccination

The number of febrile seizures attributable to the administration of DTP and MMR vaccines was estimated to be 6 to 9 and 25 to 34 per 100,000 children, respectively. As compared with other children with febrile seizures that were not associated with vaccination, the children who had febrile seizures after vaccination were not found to be at higher risk for subsequent seizures or neurodevelopmental disabilities.

CONCLUSIONS: There are significantly elevated risks of febrile seizures on the day of receipt of DTP vaccine and 8 to 14 days after the receipt of MMR vaccine, but these risks do not appear to be associated with any long-term, adverse consequences.

And your child would be much better off taking that risk than risking the adverse consequences of the illnesses they prevent.

I never got the measles vaccine as a child. It was quite new then. I had a rather severe case at age 6 that left me with a permanent hearing loss of 20% in one ear and 30% in the other. This is fairly common with measles. I really wish I had gotten the vaccine. I've really never forgiven my mother for not making more of an effort to get me immunized.

june2007 · 02/05/2020 00:00

Both my children have had febriles. Both have also had the mmr. But I would assess risk to every individual case/ vaccine. My daughter had seazures that lasted 20+ minutes,

MissConductUS · 02/05/2020 00:47

But I would assess risk to every individual case/ vaccine.

How do you assess the risk by individual? Did your children have an underlying condition that made them more susceptible? Were there any sequela?

I'm an RN and have given hundreds of vaccinations. I've never had a patient with a febrile seizure reaction.

june2007 · 02/05/2020 01:08

Both had febriles after MMR. My daughter had other seazures. Including after another jab. I am not anti jabs but I did refuse flu jabs as I did not wan to risk more seazures. No underlying conditions.

MissConductUS · 02/05/2020 01:30

Was a cause identified for her non vaccine related seizures?

I'm sorry you've had to go through this with your kids. I have two myself.

Truthpact · 02/05/2020 11:05

although the latest findings are that you cannot catch it twice

For now. The scientists themselves say it isn't mutating quick enough yet to mean we can catch it twice. Yet it can do that, that's my point. It will do that at some point. So at some point, the vaccine may not even be useful. Considering its going to take them a long time to actually test it and get it out, will they beat it mutating and making the vaccine redundant for the new virus? Let's hope so I guess. If there's no new strain out by the time the vaccine comes I would get it, although I may have already had covid, I'm not sure. Not sure if I'd bother otherwise, it's more like the flu vaccine then, 50/50 on whether it will work or not.

june2007 · 02/05/2020 11:07

It tends to be febrile she was on meds for it. But as a side effect of immunisations is often a raised temp it brought on a seazure.

MissConductUS · 02/05/2020 15:40

The scientists themselves say it isn't mutating quick enough yet to mean we can catch it twice. Yet it can do that, that's my point. It will do that at some point. So at some point, the vaccine may not even be useful.

Since there are currently about 70 vaccine candidates we may well wind up with 5-10 that are safe and effective and that use different targets, which will help a lot in dealing with future mutations. As of now it appears pretty stable.

BertieBotts · 02/05/2020 21:49

I think it would be enormously helpful to have a proper look into why people don't vaccinate, especially if there is any likelihood it could lead to any changes in policy or schemes to encourage trust in vaccines.

And by this I don't mean ask on a forum, because you get a load of virtue-signalling posters eager to tell you how clever and rational they are compared to "idiot" antivaxxers and spouting crap about why they think other people don't vaccinate, which is almost never right. Mainly quoting the most vocal, who, yes, honestly, come across a bit batshit. But there are plenty of quiet vaccine refusers who aren't shouting their mouths off on social media - they are probably not really talking about it at all in public/open/large forums with a mixed audience, because they know what the general consensus is and they don't want to get lynched for it. They are discussing it in smaller closed groups, which is absolutely what you don't want BTW, because they become echo chambers.

You want to know why people don't do it, speak directly to parents who have refused/delayed, look at threads where people are wondering or worried, see what their concerns are, follow links, research the ones which are no longer active, find the forums where parents discuss vaccine damage (yes, I know, but go and read it anyway). Vaccine damage, BTW, that's the term you want to look for, not autism, even antivaxxers have (largely) moved on from worrying about autism. Anybody bandying on about "fear of autism" or "rather dead than autistic" is a dead giveaway that they've never really spoken to/listened to an antivaxxer's real concerns. Look at natural birth/home birth/attachment parenting and breastfeeding support type places - these are prime breeding ground for doubt/hesitancy, because of the kinds of narratives that occur in these groups - because some tenets of AP/natural birth/breastfeeding tend to advocate going directly against what is sometimes advised (be induced, lie on your back, top up with formula, put baby in their own cot, don't feed them to sleep, put them on a routine) - and that primes you a bit to go well hang on, if the "experts" are wrong about childbirth and baby sleep and feeding and everything else, and someone whose opinion I respect is telling me they're wrong about vaccines as well? Yes, it's very easy to become suspicious of "official" advice. And when that official advice tries to be reassuring but the people writing it haven't actually engaged with those they are trying to reach, it massively falls flat.

This is a fantastic read, I recommend it to everyone: www.vox.com/2015/9/4/9252489/anti-vaxx-wife

To answer your actual question: I am a formerly vaccine-hesitant parent, I've changed my view now (long before coronavirus) and my children are vaccinated as recommended.

I've found the coronavirus info about reproduction numbers really interesting, and actually it's solidified some stuff for me about why it's still a good idea to vaccinate against almost-extinct diseases like Polio, and in addition why it's useful to compare against statistics for various adverse outcomes in a person who has contracted a disease. That was something I hadn't really grasped before and it was something that delayed me making a decision at a time where it could have been fairly important at least to my eldest.

So for me, yes it has changed my view, BUT, 99% of the work was already done - if I'd been in the time of my life when I was still fearful of vaccines, I probably wouldn't have wanted to take it, I would have been anxious about it being new. My sister was in the age cohort to be offered HPV and I was very worried about her having that (she didn't, because my mum ended up down the antivax rabbithole with me, and possibly is still there).

user127819 · 02/05/2020 23:01

@BertieBotts Great post. I completely agree.

It really saddens me when anyone who expresses any worry or concern over vaccines is shouted down and called an idiot, as that it not the way to reassure them (and yes, a lot of parents do just need reassurance, most aren't hardened anti-vaxers, they're just worried parents). We wouldn't shout down a parent who was worried about their child undergoing necessary surgery, we shouldn't do it with vaccines.

mrpumblechook · 03/05/2020 08:47

I think it would be enormously helpful to have a proper look into why people don't vaccinate, especially if there is any likelihood it could lead to any changes in policy or schemes to encourage trust in vaccines.

Do you really think that nobody has tried to have a "proper look." It's a huge public health concern. However, it will unfortunately never be possible to convince absolutely everyone when so many people believe the misinformation social media. Even on this thread a few people have mentioned the "terrible side effects" of vaccines a few years ago even though that didn't happen.

Yes, it is sensible to be concerned about the fact that we won't know the long term side effects of the future vaccine but you have to weigh that up with the fact that the long-term damage to the virus is likely to be much worse especially in those who become seriously ill.

Personally, I don't care whether or not people vaccinate against this virus as it will not be a live vaccine which means that everyone who wants to protect themselves against it can. Children mostly don't seem to get severe disease so rhe only people who will suffer the consequences will be adults who don't vaccinate. I don't think they will be able to rely on herd immunity for many years but that's their problem.

1555CC · 03/05/2020 11:02

We wouldn't shout down a parent who was worried about their child undergoing necessary surgery

We would if that meant they might not put their child thru the necessary surgery.

user127819 · 03/05/2020 18:22

@1555CC Well, I wouldn't. I would sympathise with their worry but kindly explain that the benefits of the surgery outweigh the risks. Then at least it wouldn't be on my conscience if they declined the surgery and the child had a poor outcome. If I shouted at them and called them an idiot on the other hand I would risk alienating them, and I couldn't live with myself if I thought my hostility had contributed to the injury or death of a child.

BertieBotts · 05/05/2020 18:38

Well clearly not, if OP hasn't heard of the most popular conspiracy theories! I don't think very much academic research has been done into the deeper reasons why people don't want to vaccinate, it always seems to be very surface level to me - fears about autism, for example, is a buzzword when like I say most vaccine-hesitant parents aren't worried about autism specifically (IME).

mrpumblechook · 05/05/2020 19:48

Well clearly not, if OP hasn't heard of the most popular conspiracy theories!

OP is an undergraduate student so the fact they haven't heard of popular conspiracy theories does not mean that academics who have spent years in the field wouldn't know about it. There has been a lot of research on why parents refuse vaccination. It's a huge public health problem so why wouldn't there be?

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