What impact will the current health issue have on vaccine hesitant/refusing parents?

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You would hope that those who are vaccine hesitant or refuse vaccinations for their children will now understand what happens when a diseases is out of control and in desperate need for a preventative vaccination.

Do you think after this is over, it will improve vaccination uptake?

Or do you think those who refuse the MMR etc will also refuse the idea of covid19 vaccination and carry on as usual?

I'm currently writing a dissertation on vaccine uptake (or lack-thereof) so this really interests me. I really look forward to the literature that comes out over the next few years to show how things have (or have not!) changed.

I think they'll carry on refusing it for their usual reasons but with an added slice of tin-foil hattery considering all the Bill Gates, microchips, manufacturer virus conspiracy theories floating around.

This with bells on.

I think the current antivaxers have become more entrenched in their beliefs right now. I saw one meme the other day asking the people who were laughing at Trump and his disinfectant comments to start looking at vaccine ingredients. Add in the paranoia bout Bill Gates/ the WHO/ Lady Gaga and the fact the vaccine is new and there are laws to force vaccination (in Scotland anyway, not that I think they will enforce that) and their minds are going at a million miles an hour.

These people think that clean water alone was enough to eradicate disease, the fact that their kids have not caught any illnesses like measles is put down to their superior immune systems and not the fact herd immunity is also protecting them. They tend not to worry about the virus as they see it as being a problem for the old and sick and not them.

You're assuming these people are of average intelligence. They're not, they're a thick as mince. So normal logic doesn't apply.

Yup.

I wish it was Darwin Award time. The problem is it's children and people who can't be vaccinated that suffer, not the dingaling parents.

The only anti vaxxer I know has gone even more loopy. Her entire Facebook is filled with bill gates, 5G, new world order, blah blah blah.

I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum. I’ve registered my interest for the CV vaccine trials and have no problem with a ‘rushed’ vaccine.

Won't be having a brand new vaccine (I'll be at the back of the queue anyway being under 50 with no medical conditions and not working with vulnerable people) I'll take my chances catching it a second time, already had symptoms. For immuno compromised it's a no brainer but vaccine development is littered with vaccines that are licenced then turn out to have side effects

I have the opposite problem - parents are anti-vaxxers and refusing to get any vaccine for this.

I don't think their opinions will be any different. Even if it kills one in 60 million people they will be more worried about that than the much bigger chance of COVID-19 killing them.

Does anyone remember that story a few years ago where some students were taking part in a vaccine trial and they all became unconscious and some even died IIRC.

No. Do you have a link? That sounds like anti-vaccine propaganda.

BCG is effective for to 15 years so most of the people vaccinated will now have either no immunity to TB or waning immunity so it wouldn't be effective protection against developing severe CV19 symptoms either.

How on earth do you know this?
For a start BCG isn't very effective against TB in the first place. It's most effective if given straight after birth (within 2 weeks). Other than that it is quite a rubbish vaccine.
However it does contain immune stimulants which may well be useful against other diseases.

Personally I am fully vaccinated and so is my child. However, it's stupid to say that vaccines are safe and never have side effects. Some vaccines are safe. Others are more likely to cause side effects. It's a risk benefit analysis. If I believed a vaccine was more risky than the disease, I wouldn't have it. So far this has never happened. But it might.

The herd immunity argument/selfishness doesn't really apply. Where else in life do parents do something unpleasant to their own child in order to help others? In fact this is seen as unethical in most cases.

No, I don’t think this will improve vaccination uptake.

I think if anything, people will start to think more about vaccines than they did before because there is so much talk about them in the media, and that could result in a lower uptake. Most people don’t think about it too much and choose to trust the NHS recommendations and go along with it. If they start to question whether the full vaccination program is really what they want for their child, they are called stupid and unintelligent by MN, and it’s assumed that instead of just having normal worries for their baby, they are consumed with thoughts of microchips and 5G shite.

Vaccine uptake will improve by professionals taking parents valid concerns seriously, not by rushing through another vaccine for an illness that we still know relatively little about.

How on earth do you know this? For a start BCG isn't very effective against TB in the first place. It's most effective if given straight after birth (within 2 weeks). Other than that it is quite a rubbish vaccine.

I know it from Google and the NHS website. The immunity conferred by the vaccine wanes over time and after around 15yrs has almost entirely waned in most cases.

The BCG is 7-80% effective against TB so hardly rubbish.

However, it's stupid to say that vaccines are safe and never have side effects

No one on the thread has said this. It has been acknowledged in multiple posts that no vaccine is, or indeed can ever be, 100% safe but that for vast majority of people there will be no adverse effects.

Some vaccines are safe. Others are more likely to cause side effects

All vaccines have to meet the same benchmark of safety requirements before being licensed for public use so while the potential side effects differ from vaccine to vaccine the basic safety threshold does not.

The herd immunity argument/selfishness doesn't really apply.

Herd immunity isn't just about benefiting those who cannot be vaccinated and other vulnerable groups such as newborns or people who are immunocompromised. It also stops diseases circulating in the community as increased circulation can increase the chances of mutation so then it becomes more dangerous or the vaccine given is no longer effective. Added into this is the fact that vaccine effectiveness can wane over time which can lead to a higher infection rate and more circulation.

@mrpumblechook it was a drug trial, not a vaccine here

Well said @NailsNeedDoing

7-80 should say 70-80

it was a drug trial, not a vaccine here

Yes, not a vaccine and the drug was being tested for the first time in humans.

@Brogley Those figures are effectiveness against TB meningitis (more common in children - it’s now offered to certain susceptible populations in the U.K.) not pulmonary TB. When we were vaccinated against it, it was for pulmonary TB and it’s been shown to be pretty ineffective for that. I had a nasty reaction to it and I’ve been left with a massive scar on my arm. It was quite common for people to have horrible weeping sores on the vaccine site for several weeks. I remember quite a few of us having to miss swimming lessons until it healed.

I posted about the drug trial earlier in the thread to clear up some of the misinformation posted about it.

Eight students took part, they were the first ever humans to take the drug which was a potential drug for leukaemia. Prior to the trial they were given an 11 page consent form detailing the potential side effects.

Six of them reacted to it and they reacted within an hour of taking it, basically an almost immediate reaction.

They were very unwell however none of them died.

There was a thorough investigation, including an investigation into whether or not the drugs had been tampered with. It concluded that the dosage had been too high.

Lessons were learned from it and drug trials are now run differently due to.

Those figures are effectiveness against TB meningitis (more common in children - it’s now offered to certain susceptible populations in the U.K.) not pulmonary TB

That's the figures for severe types of TB in children, including TB meningitis. It reduces the risk of TB in adults by 50% which is still no small figure particularly for those in areas where TB is a risk.

Vaccine uptake will improve by professionals taking parents valid concerns seriously, not by rushing through another vaccine for an illness that we still know relatively little about.

I would prefer that they produce vaccine as quickly as possible and potentially save millions of lives rather than concentrate on making you feel professionals are taking you seriously.

"Do you think after this is over, it will improve vaccination uptake"

No. The world will always have idiots.

I'm old enough to remember the kids with polio, the babies born blind or deaf or both because their mothers' caught rubella, I can remember the small pox outbreaks in the 50s and 60s, I lived in an area with many Muslims and it wasn't unusual to have an outbreak when people returned from Mecca. My husband knew the last woman in Britain to die of small pox. I'm pro vaccine and I'd happily be one of the first to get it if I get the chance.

taking parents valid concerns seriously

Which concerns? There is an information leaflet with every vaccine that lists the benefits if the vaccine, details of how and when it is administered, and the known risks. Consent has to be obtained before a vaccine can be given and there is opportunity there to ask questions or voice concerns.

I would prefer that they produce vaccine as quickly as possible and potentially save millions of lives rather than concentrate on making you feel professionals are taking you seriously.

That’s fine as long as you don’t expect people who don’t want the vaccine until they have had their concerns addressed to have it anyway.

On an individual level I don't think that it will change much on vaccination.

However it will be interesting to see what it does to government policies worldwide. Most Western countries tend to recommend it without mandating it. We have recently seen an surge in preventable diseases like measles etc and now this pandemic, I think governments are seeing the real advantage of a coherent, consistent and well funded public health policies ground in science and fact. Perhaps this pandemic will lead to harder policies with regard to mandatory vaccination and perhaps even a crackdown on the spread of misinformation on sites like twitter and Facebook that damage the public health and safety.

That’s fine as long as you don’t expect people who don’t want the vaccine until they have had their concerns addressed to have it anyway.

I don't care that much about what you do and certainly don't think your concerns should have any impact on vaccine availability for those that do wish to have it.

Then we don’t have a problem. Like you, I don’t care much about what others do and if they want to have the vaccine, great, if they don’t, also great.

But I thought the whole point was that a certain number of people need to be vaccinated otherwise it will be worthless on a population level. I expect enough people will want it that that won’t be an issue, but if they don’t, then what?