To not want a dog in shared garden?

[Dotty07]

We have a shared yard at the back of our house that is shared with 2 others neighbours. A new neighbour recently moved in and has a dog. The dog uses the garden space as a toilet, he does now pick up poo after many discussions but the dog pees everywhere and in everything. We can have anything out as he just lets it pee on whatever, including my back door!

AIBU to not want a dog using the back garden at all, it’s very small and the dog is big, is it just me?

@mathanxiety but it’s not the case that one person’s ‘needs and safety’ comes above the neighbour’s right to let their dog out, in a shared garden, that they also pay for, as long as they are doing so within the rules of the lease or any relevant rules.

It’s a shared space. You have to share it. There might be rules, but beyond this you can’t dictate how others use it. Your wants and needs don’t trump your neighbours. You’re sharing.

This obviously works best when people are considerate and show good manners (which could be interpreted as informal, socially constructed, rules).

I’m not sure what you mean that my comment isn’t a logical conclusion. It’s pretty obvious that if you have a shared space, you don’t as an individual get to make and dictate the rules that others have to abide by.

The leases and other agreements set out ground rules, but beyond that - one neighbour is not entitled to tell the other neighbour how to use the space.

So from what I understand OP can't put her washing out because the dog pees on it. She can't let her children out either as the dog is very excitable. It also pees on her door.

I would be seriously pissed off about that but unfortunately when you have a shared space it only works if none of the people sharing the space are twats.

As others have said, check your deeds. Normally when there is a shared space there will be regulations governing its use.

Unfortunately as he had to be asked to pick up the poo it does not sound as if he will be particularly cooperative.

If you move just be sure that you don't have a shared space next time!

You're coming to a lot of conclusions math, but in the absence of rules, all tenants have an equal right to use the area how they see fit. Unless the shared property is factored/has rules in the deeds/contract you're basically talking about moral rights, not actual rules.

If I had a shared garden too right I'd be letting my dog out. That said, I'd be cleaning up after it because I'm not a monster.

If I had to share it, I'd hose it down - I'd make a point of doing it whilst he and dog were outside. Making quite a show of how cheap the hose was and how easy it would be for him to hose the area the dog pissed. Suggesting he get one to clean the paving slaves weekly if he insists on using the shared area as a toilet.

YABU. This is one of the many issues you may face when you have a shared garden.

@Tonemeth I agree, I’m not sure why people think they can tell others how to use a shared space over and above what’s in the set rules.

I completely think it’s good manners to be mindful of neighbours when using a shared space. But that works for everyone.

Its just tough - if you have specific requirements then you either need your own space or go for somewhere that has set rules that fit in with your requirements. So if you don’t want to share the space with neighbours that have dogs that means only moving somewhere where dogs are prohibited (or prohibited from doing whatever it is you can’t abide by). You can’t expect to move somewhere with a shared space, sign up to the rules in the lease but then try and dictate your own, additional, rules to others about how and when they use the space.

I have two dogs and I don't like them going on the main part of the garden where we sit and entertain (when not in lock down) so we've fenced a bit off for them. So I totally get why you don't like it.

Cant believe people think it is ok to allow the dog to use the shared space as a toilet, would the same people still be happy if their children had to play in the dogs toilet ?

I would contact the landlord as most don't allow dogs. Out of courtesy the landlord should have spoken to other residents if he was proposing to let tenants have dogs.

I bet half the people saying you are not being unreasonable own cats that piss and shit in peoples gardens where their kids play but it's ok because they're cats.

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@minettechatouette

I find it so gross when dog-owners let their dog wee on the pavement and don't wash it away so there's a little pool of wee left.

What? Do you have OCD or something? I thought people walked on pavements not ate their dinner off them?

If the dog is permitted as per deeds, then I would speak again, and explain the dog being off the lead that is troubling you along with the fact he permits it to urinate over everything. Request that he hoses down everything that the dog urinated on and keeps the dog on a lead. Taking responsibility for the outdoor water bill.
Does his flat lead onto the garden?

Out of courtesy the landlord should have spoken to other residents if he was proposing to let tenants have dogs.

And say what? People are allowed to keep pets if their landlord allows. Neighboues have nothing to do with it I'm afraid. What if it was an owner occupier?

Cant believe people think it is ok to allow the dog to use the shared space as a toilet, would the same people still be happy if their children had to play in the dogs toilet?

I don't have kids. Or a cat for that matter. Agree he needs to train the dog and clean up after it but ultimately it's a shared space as detailed above.

...in the absence of rules, all tenants have an equal right to use the area how they see fit

Obv I disagree. Nobody has a right to leave a hazard out for others to live with or deal with, which urine and feces are.

Yes his backdoor is right on the courtyard as is mines. At the beginning when he wasn’t cleaning up, I asked, I didn’t tell him and he told me he would do it when he likes. He does do it now but in the odd occasion will leave poo for a few hours tops. For pee, this is never cleaned up, at the moment he is completely unapproachable and I fear the more I get at him the more he deliberately lets the dog control the yard. It most likely is a no win situation just very frustrating that we are thinking of selling our home!

I’m not sure why people think they can tell others how to use a shared space over and above what’s in the set rules.

Relying on the letter of the law to guide your behaviour is passive aggressive nonsense when someone insists on renting a shared space.

If someone wants to enjoy perfect freedom from consideration of others and believes they have the right to certain uses of the space unless there is a specific rule against them, they shouldn't be living in a multi unit building. Somewhere out in the country with a few acres might suit. Or a suburb where every house has its own private garden where you can allow your dog, boa, or alligator to roam free and use the space as a toilet to its heart's content.

YANBU - I'd not tolerate this. I'm amazed that his landlord is OK with it. What does your lease/property deed say about pets being in the shared yard?

...it’s not the case that one person’s ‘needs and safety’ comes above the neighbour’s right to let their dog out, in a shared garden, that they also pay for, as long as they are doing so within the rules of the lease or any relevant rules.

Needs and safety of people do in fact trump anyone's whim about their pet. This is because dogs are not humans and do not have the rights that people have. Dogs are not extensions of their owner's personalities. They are property. So are homes and gardens. The OP has a right to the enjoyment of her property. The neighbour has a right to enjoyment of his dog but not to let the dog negatively affect the OP's enjoyment of her property. The neighbour has the right to enjoy the property he pays rent for, but not to allow his other property, the dog, to create a nuisance or interfere with the OP's enjoyment of the property.

A dog can't bark all night in a flat and can't monopolise a shared space by its presence or the presence of urine or fecal waste, any more than any other property of a resident can monopolise a shared space. Dog waste, which is hazardous to humans just as human waste is, isn't something everyone else has to tolerate 'because dog'. A dog in this case is no different from a rusty old junked car that the neighbour parks in the garden and tinkers with as a hobby.

Dogs are not some special class of property that is immune from all considerations of human needs, rights, and safety. They can be and are frequently considered a nuisance. A substantial interference with enjoyment of a shared space is considered a nuisance (such as creating noxious odours, attracting flies or rats which feed on feces, or loud and constant barking or aggressive behaviour) if we are to get all legal about it.

@Dotty07
You should consult your own deed as there may be T&Cs there that would apply to you if you were to choose to keep a pet, including a dog. The other units should be bound by the same T&Cs if there are any in the deed regarding pets and use of the common areas, and an owner who rents out a unit can't do that without incorporating terms and conditions in their deed in any tenant lease. You should contact the landlord and ask if the terms of the neighbour's lease include keeping a dog, and if so, under what terms and conditions. You could also ask the LL to have a stern word with the tenant.

It's a pity when a resident feels there is no recourse except to the law, but if there is a local authority or city dog warden or environmental health department for your area then that is the avenue to go down if contact with the landlord proves fruitless. The LA has an interest in maintaining public health and safety and hence its role in matters involving dogs.

I would want to move too OP

OMG - that is absolutely disgusting. I would be furious.

@mathanxiety

If someone wants to enjoy perfect freedom from consideration of others and believes they have the right to certain uses of the space unless there is a specific rule against them, they shouldn't be living in a multi unit building. Somewhere out in the country with a few acres might suit
You mean like my 7 acres where entitled arseholes think it's ok to let there dog wander and shit, not to mention the dog chasing my neighbours sheep.

The wee thing wouldn't bother me so much (apart from up against your door etc), but basically not being able to use the garden - due to not feeling comfortable allowing your DC to go out without worrying about the dog - is really unfair. I actually think the landlord was really inconsiderate given you have small DC; it's likely they could have found a tenant without a dog.

Letting a dog pee in a shared paved yard is antisocial!