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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Nannies not being furloughed.

132 replies

TwuckFwaps · 23/04/2020 12:49

We live in an area where a high percentage of families who have nannies, and many of them are expecting their nannies to travel to and from work each day. Many nannies are saying the families are not front line / key workers and are WFH; the majority of nannies are from abroad.

AIBU to think that if you are expecting your nanny to travel to and from work, you need to take on the responsibility of paying them in full if they become ill, offer their families death in service pay, and cover the costs of their funeral expenses and repatriation in the event that they die?

These are pretty much the conditions that will be in the parents employment contracts anyway (given the main types of employment in the wealthiest part of London) so surely they should give the same terms to their nannies?

YES YANBU

NO Fuck off you stupid trollop everyone needs a nanny when working from home.

OP posts:
LaurieMarlow · 23/04/2020 19:28

We can’t expect our employers to pay us if we aren’t working when we could be if we have our nanny with us.

Your employers should be supportive of you doing what’s responsible. Which is probably not exposing your nanny (or your household) to further risk.

karmakameleon · 23/04/2020 20:13

Where do people think the money should come from to pay nannies that coming to work? Obviously the government covers some but only about half of my nannies full time wage. She’s on a normal London salary and she’s be very worried about how she’d pay her bills on the furlough amount.

My employer would be fully supportive of me asking her to stay at home due the risks of transmission and would let me continue to work full time while looking after the children. But realistically I’d be run into the ground after a couple of weeks.

Do people really think that I should do that pay my nanny a full wage to stay at home because other people are supposedly coping?

LaurieMarlow · 23/04/2020 20:22

Do people really think that I should do that pay my nanny a full wage to stay at home because other people are supposedly coping?

I think people have to figure out what to do for themselves, but the moral and public aspects are hugely important point.

If your income is unaffected, there are no very specific challenges with your children or the nature if the job you do, them yes, frankly. We’re all supposed to be pulling together here.

You nanny and your household are safer if she stays away.

foodandwine89 · 23/04/2020 20:25

There are a lot of jobs that would be impossible to do while taking care of a toddler. Sure, those parents could resign because they can no longer do their job (and you are delusional if you think all employers are understanding or willing to help parents by giving unpaid leave). But who would that benefit? It doesn’t benefit the nanny, doesn’t benefit the parents, doesn’t benefit the government, doesn’t benefit anyone. But people who are struggling think everyone should struggle just like them.

LaurieMarlow · 23/04/2020 20:31

But people who are struggling think everyone should struggle just like them

I’m not sure this is exactly the case.

However it is phenomenal what you can do when you HAVE to. The vast majority of those looking after their kids while wfh thought it was impossible too.

And most employers are being accommodating, yes.

I dont think there’s a hard and fast rule, but I personally couldn’t expose an employee or my household to lore rusk than necessary.

LaurieMarlow · 23/04/2020 20:31

More risk

Original poster
TwuckFwaps · 23/04/2020 20:35

So the reason I asked this was two nannies have died in our community due to covid - from what I am told both were expected to go to work for non key worker families.

Both are from Asia and have no families in the UK. The funeral / repatriation costs for their families are going to be massive.

OP posts:
nanbread · 23/04/2020 20:45

you are delusional if you think all employers are understanding or willing to help parents by giving unpaid leave

Actually all parents are legally entitled to parental leave totalling 5 weeks per year per child. So someone with two or more children - which most many families will have IME - could have 10 weeks off. Per parent. That should cover it...

karmakameleon · 23/04/2020 20:50

Actually all parents are legally entitled to parental leave totalling 5 weeks per year per child. So someone with two or more children - which most many families will have IME - could have 10 weeks off. Per parent. That should cover it...

There is that provision in law but you have to give notice to take the leave and the employer does not have to grant it now but any time in the next six months. I’m sure many employers would be understanding and grant leave now but that doesn’t deal with the question of how families pay their nannies if they have lost an income themselves.

karmakameleon · 23/04/2020 20:54

So the reason I asked this was two nannies have died in our community due to covid - from what I am told both were expected to go to work for non key worker families.

Obviously that’s very sad. I think that employers have to be understanding of the risks and no one should be forced to work, but employees equally have to accept that if they choose not to or can’t work, they may lose a wage (or part of one if they are covered by the government scheme).

disorganisedsecretsquirrel · 23/04/2020 20:57

This really isn't about what is 'allowed' this is about what is right from a public health POV.

Yes your nanny is ALLOWED to work... but should you be requiring this while the rest of the country is social distancing to stop the spread . Nanny's WILL be at more risk of spreading. Is your WISH for a nanny greater than the countries NEED ?

crispysausagerolls · 23/04/2020 20:58

But people who are struggling think everyone should struggle just like them

This is the truth of the matter, and what most comments on the first pages are saying here. Other comments are dressed up as “community concern”, but the truth of it is that if most people had the option they would take it.

It’s extremely easy to just say “keep paying them and not using them”, but it’s a lot of money. Now that lockdown has been extended and goodness knows how long things will go on, it feels very unreasonable to not do things you are technically allowed to do. If a nanny lives alone and works only for you/drives to you...it’s not a huge increase in risk.

crispysausagerolls · 23/04/2020 20:59

@karmakameleon

You are spot on. Lots of people are about to lose their jobs.

  1. is now the time to demand your 5 weeks off and
  2. is now the time to throw money down the drain on employees you could utilise but aren’t?
nannynick · 23/04/2020 21:09

The Covid-19 Getting Tested has been updated today with an essential workers list. On that list is:
education and childcare workers, including:

  • support and teaching staff
  • social workers
  • specialist education professionals

So as a nanny is a childcare worker, are they now classed as an essential worker?

LaurieMarlow · 23/04/2020 21:13

It’s extremely easy to just say “keep paying them and not using them”, but it’s a lot of money.

So furlough and top up. Which you can do.

crispysausagerolls · 23/04/2020 21:15

Do people
Think the govt just have an unlimited pot of money to pay for everyone?!

LaurieMarlow · 23/04/2020 21:16

Do people Think the govt just have an unlimited pot of money to pay for everyone?!

The government aren’t doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

They’re doing it for the public health concerns.

oblada · 23/04/2020 21:20

Furlough should definitely be used as an alternative to lay off or redundancy or if the job cannot be done safely. Yes the guidance are rubbish and the scheme seems to have widened but we furlough willy nilly we will kill the economy! I'd say a nanny can do her job reasonably safely if parents stay out of the way and each household otherwise follows social isolation guidance.
No issue on my end, just because we're struggling WFH with our 3 kids doesn't mean everyone has to.

crispysausagerolls · 23/04/2020 21:21

@LaurieMarlow

This is going to go on and on. People need to make sensible risk assessment and proceed based on that. Which is why the govt are trying to make it clear that some people can go back to work if they can’t work from home. Because they cannot keep funding everyone and there needs to be some sort of return to normality before the economy is crippled further. It’s a balancing act re health concerns.

crispysausagerolls · 23/04/2020 21:22

@oblada

Exactly!

karmakameleon · 23/04/2020 21:23

It’s not just the government that is expected to have unlimited funds but also private individuals. To top up my nanny’s pay, tax, NI and pension would cost me about £2k a month. It’s not pocket change if I’m not earning anything myself.

nannynick · 23/04/2020 21:25

Do we have a moral obligation to minimise the costs to the tax payers, who is ultimately ourselves and our children and their children?

Thus where employers can afford to pay in full and have their employee not come to work, then should that be an option - maybe we could have Furlough without JRS.

nannynick · 23/04/2020 21:27

There is no one solution that fits all. Each case needs to be risk assessed. Employers and nannies need to communicate with each other and decide between them.

thetoddleratemyhomework · 23/04/2020 21:31

This is ridiculous.

We are not in lockdown to stop anyone catching Covid for a year, we are in lockdown to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. The two are very different things. When politicians in other countries and Nicola Sturgeon talk about letting people do more things once out of lockdown they are accepting that it is ok to take a certain amount of risk both on an individual and society level - this is not the same as killing people. Covid will be around for a while and the government cannot just pay people to sit at home indefinitely. It is a balance between crashing the economy (which will cost lives) and a rocketing Covid epidemic (which will cost lives).

The government guidance, which tells us all what to do so as not to overwhelm the NHS, says that you can go to work if you cannot work from home.

We self isolated for 2 weeks so our nanny could come. I went to my grandmother's funeral 10 days ago and have been self isolating again so that she can come again next week. Accordingly, she has only been in for a couple of weeks in the last six (I worked from home for a couple of weeks before lockdown). I have only ordered food - haven't been to the supermarket or to any shops at all. I am absolutely confident that if my nanny got Covid she would be overwhelmingly likely to be absolutely fine being a woman in her 30s without any underlying conditions (I asked her if anyone in her household was vulnerable before taking my approach) BUT in addition I am also absolutely confident that she is more likely to have got Covid from her weekly shop than in her house. She drives to our house - no public transport. Honestly, I think she is extremely safe at work and I have asked her if she is happy to work and she is. I don't think I am an uncaring employer. But I do need her to come - I can manage for a short period of time without her, but I have been working until 1am and getting up at 6 every day that she doesn't come and working through the weekend so that my husband and I can split childcare. Essentially, my husband and I are ships in the night so that we can juggle. Does this sound like the kind of thing that is sustainable for another few months?! Whilst not a key worker, I am a professional involved in advising companies, many of which need finance or to be able to keep elements of their business going in order to be able to exist in the long term - not totally unimportant.

thetoddleratemyhomework · 23/04/2020 21:34

Oh and I have also shortened my nanny's hours to adjust for us not commuting but pay the same