Nannies not being furloughed.

[TwuckFwaps]

We live in an area where a high percentage of families who have nannies, and many of them are expecting their nannies to travel to and from work each day. Many nannies are saying the families are not front line / key workers and are WFH; the majority of nannies are from abroad.

AIBU to think that if you are expecting your nanny to travel to and from work, you need to take on the responsibility of paying them in full if they become ill, offer their families death in service pay, and cover the costs of their funeral expenses and repatriation in the event that they die?

These are pretty much the conditions that will be in the parents employment contracts anyway (given the main types of employment in the wealthiest part of London) so surely they should give the same terms to their nannies?

YES YANBU

NO Fuck off you stupid trollop everyone needs a nanny when working from home.

From your earlier post, you clearly people who aren’t struggling through, looking after their own children and continuing to pay their nannies, are making a morally poor choice.

It wouldn’t be a choice I’d make, no.

However as the thread has progressed I have shifted a little in my view and have revised that position. Up to the individual.

Also depends on the age of the children. There's a big difference between a ten year old who'+s getting on with some school work and you are keeping an eye on them and making their lunch and an 15 month year old who keeps trying to launch themselves off the sofa head first every time your back is turned!

I think that those of you saying a nanny should still work are looking at this in completely the wrong way. Forget about 'can' she work and think more about 'should' she work.

The rules are all in place for a reason. Not to make lives harder but to stop this virus spreading. Simple as that.

Then you have to ask yourself the question ; does someone, (nanny, cleaner, housekeeper in fact any form of domestic staff who helps your family operate in normal times) present more of a risk of spreading the virus or not. The answer is of course it does. It not only presents a massive increase in risk to your family but to the wider population.

Take an average nanny or cleaner coming to your home. The nanny has to travel. Private vehicle is significantly less risk than public transport which is a huge risk. Considering the lack of public distancing possible on a bus or tube. Think about all the hands that touch the same places your nanny's hands touch. She can then bring this awful virus right in to your home and infect you and your children and of course herself.

The argument that 'I have a very important job that requires me to concentrate' really doesn't cut it. The ONLY important jobs at the moment belong to keyworkers. If you are one of them then your children can have childcare places. Or you do what everyone else does at the moment and juggle kids and work.

It really isn't about your right to have a nanny it's about social responsibility to the wider public health. Yes it's tough but wanting to have your children cared for in this way doesn't mean you can contribute to spreading a virus.

...and btw, if you pay your Nanny correctly through PAYE then she absolutely CAN be furloughed and receive 80% of her salary as it was paid on 28/2/2020.

People on this thread sound petty and jealous tbh. Yes, it’s shit that some people are working from home with no help, but some people can afford help and if the help are happy to come in, why the fuck not? The govt are allowing it! No it’s not fair that people can’t all afford nannies but that’s life.

A nanny is quite different to a cleaner IMO. A cleaner goes to dozens of houses over the course of a week, potentially spreading germs between them. A nanny goes to just one house and may be able to drive there rather than take public transport to minimise the risk of transmission.

and btw, if you pay your Nanny correctly through PAYE then she absolutely CAN be furloughed and receive 80% of her salary as it was paid on 28/2/2020.

No, she can't, unless the circumstances of the parents mean that she is no longer needed. You can't just furlough any employee you want. You can only furlough them if there is no work for them to do and they would otherwise be made redundant.

Inconnu yes I agree a single household is LESS of a threat. However many Nannies share families and these should imho definitely be stopped.

This really isn't about 'the law' though. It's about people having a social responsibility towards public health. That is everyone's responsibility to do their bit.

Inconnu as a nanny I go to three houses. Not all nannies work full-time for one family.

So that creates another discussion point...

If a nanny works for several families, the risk of passing the virus surely increases, so should all families stop having the nanny attend, or just some of them? What if in one family both parents are keyworkers - in my view that job keeps going... but is that view reasonable?

@bridgetreilly I think you see things the same way I do with regard to Furlough. If the family are choosing not to have their nanny come, then they pay in full, not use furlough. Do you agree?

bridgetreilly If parents are able to work from home then the nanny CAN be furloughed. As there is no need ! just a desire. If the same family currently with a nanny suddenly lost the ability to pay. What would happen ? They would WFH and juggle childcare . The children can be looked after by their parents . (Who like many parents - are doing exactly this)

The only difference is the economic ability to have a nanny. Public health really shouldn't be reliant on economics.

You can only furlough them if there is no work for them to do and they would otherwise be made redundant.

Surely you say that as you’re wfh, you do not require the childcare at this present moment?

I am a live out nanny and my family have furloughed me, and I am on full pay. I have gratutide and see how the family really appreciate me by noting that this virus is deadly and that they want me to be safe to take care of their children so I will be back to work once it's safe to do so.

@nannynick is right - and our nanny had specific confirmation that since DH and I are not keyworkers, she should not be working for us. She also works for a family with two healthcare workers so we have agreed that neither of us is happy with her coming into the home and the increased for us.

We have furloughed her and her other family have increased her hours to cover their shifts and provide continuity for the children.

If parents are able to work from home AND can care for their children at the same time, then there is no need for the nanny, just a desire. In which case the nanny could be told to not come in and still be paid in full.

If the same family currently with a nanny suddenly lost the ability to pay, then that could be as a result parent losing their job, so there is a parent at home who can do the childcare. Thus the position of nanny is redundant. In that situation furlough may apply as means of trying to keep the job going, though redundancy may be inevitable.

So it has been clarified that the nanny can work only if parents are key workers. That makes sense.

I’m wfh as is my husband. Our nanny stopped coming to us just before lock down started as there had been confirmed cases in my team at work. However after what will be 6 weeks of me wfh she is now happy to come back (she drives to us which helps) and we’re going to act as if we and her are one household.

I can’t wait!

I’ve taken unpaid leave and holiday to reduce my hours and that along with my DH and I having little to no sleep and no time for anything else it has been the only way we’ve survived. It’s not managing it coping or doing anything well.

I’m paying her, she’s happy to work, so I don’t see it as a problem. My childcare bill has always been way higher than it could have been because I needed the flexibility having a nanny gave me. So I now get a benefit for choosing this option and I will take it.

Also I see no issue in furloughing a nanny if you need to and claiming. I pay my nanny from my net salary and she in turn pays tax. I also pay employer NI. It’s the least tax efficient arrangement to employing someone ever. The money is essentially taxed twice. So getting something back if needed isn’t something I’ve a problem with.

So getting something back if needed isn’t something I’ve a problem with.

I think you’re confusing the economics of the situation with the public health implications.

Great post, @disorganisedsecretsquirrel.

Imo, live-out nannies should be furloughed to reduce risk to themselves and the employing family.

So it has been clarified that the nanny can work only if parents are key workers. That makes sense.

No, some guidance/advice has been given to MPs on the subject, whom have relayed that on to people asking their MP about it.

No legislation has been made. I cannot locate an SI.

The guidance for MPs has also not been published on GovUK... though they update the COVID related documents quite often, so why not add it in?

Please read my post on p3 containing government guidance, NANNIES CAN BE FURLOUGHED regardless of parents’ job roles and not just if they would otherwise be made redundant.

Phew, sorry (kind of) for shouting, off for a

Link:

www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

See ‘Individuals’ section just under a quarter down.

So people are allowed to go to work - they are then mixing households.
Nannies are allowed to go to work (and then mixing households).
It's fine. You cannot furlough someone if they are not redundant and everyone who can work should or we going to be in a bigger mess than we are already.

A live in nanny is my top lockdown fantasy.

I'm not sure I'd have wanted someone bringing the virus into my home, or picking it up from visiting another household.
Maybe these people are immune to the deadly virus.
Time will tell.
Of course YANBU, money is more important than life.

We have a nanny who is still coming to us - in line with Government guidance - to look after pre-schoolers which she can’t do from home. She walks here and she wants to work.

We can’t furlough her. Neither my DH nor I have been furloughed. We can’t expect our employers to pay us if we aren’t working when we could be if we have our nanny with us.