to think it's madness to not ask for an extension to transition period?

[BaileysforBreakfast]

The government has approximately 36 days in which to decide whether to ask for an extension to the transition period. If they don't, we have only 7.5 months to hammer out a deal with the EU while we are in the grip of a worldwide crisis. If a deal isn't reached, we will have no trade agreement in place in December. It's possible, of course, that we may make agreements with other countries before then.

Cards on the table - I am opposed to Brexit and have always thought it was madness. IMO people in this country are suffering enough at the moment. Our economy is in a dangerous place right now and it would be reckless to not ask for an extension. What do others think?

YANBU - we should request an extension to the transition period
YABU - we should go ahead regardless

I disagree. It's time to stop living in the past, wanting to go back to the "golden era" - it's such a reactionary opinion. We should be looking to the future, not clinging onto rose-tinted memories of what the country was like before Brexit (pretty shit, actually!).

Rather than hampering us, the coronavirus might actually give us the whip hand in negotiations. Rather than the UK being in a position of weakness compared to other countries, they will be in weak positions too. Our economy was going to be wrecked anyway, now their economies are wrecked too.

I get that you were a remainer but those days are gone. People need to stop looking back at the "glory days" and look forward to the future.

peoplewhoannoyyou Interesting response there, with loads of presumptions in it. I'm not looking back to 'glory days' . Having accepted it's happening, I do not think this is a good time for us to introduce more uncertainty. I am very concerned about piling risk upon risk.
I'm interested why you think coronavirus might give us the 'whip hand' in negotiations, given that we're not in some special advantageous position here. I think we're looking forward to a future of extreme economic damage, along with most other countries. Why wouldn't they prioritise protecting their own economies and people?

I really want to say YABU but just can’t bring my self to. In this very unusual time, they would be reckless to press ahead as the wrong deal may be reached. Let’s hope that both can be sorted.

It would be great if some of the YABU button-pushers could contribute to the discussion! Maybe they believe Brexit won't cause any more disruption than we already have - or maybe, like peoplewhoannoyyou - they think Covid puts us in a better negotiating position. I'd love to see an argument supporting the YABU stance.

@peoplewhoannoyyou That is incredibly naive. Other countries are going to be more protectionist due to poor economic conditions, we will now have a very poor bargaining position and a weaker positoon from which to stimulate our own economy.

Nothing whatsoever is being reported in terms of our negotiations with the EU. Maybe things are happening behind closed doors, but I feel sure there would be some reporting on this if that was the case. This is another thing contributing to my concern. If we're fundamentally in the same position now that we were a few months ago, wouldn't an extension regain the negotiating time that we've 'lost' to Corona?

While I think Brexit is a mistake, I believe people learn best when they have first hand experience of the consequences of their actions.

The people who would be affected the most are the ones who voted for Brexit and denying them the opportunity to actually live out the consequences of that decision would mean leaving room for idiots like Nigel Farage to sway them with even more extremist messaging.

We should be looking to the future, not clinging onto rose-tinted memories of what the country was like before Brexit (pretty shit, actually!).

That is exactly the purpose of negotiating a future trade deal. Which we now don't have time to do before the end of the withdrawal period.

I mean, we didn't have time to do it anyway, even without coronavirus, because the withdrawal period was obviously too short, but now because of coronavirus we don't even have time to start doing it.

Leaving the EU is like jumping out of a plane. Would you rather we do it with a parachute, or without one?

The withdrawal period and the trade negotiations are the parachute.

Maybe things are happening behind closed doors, but I feel sure there would be some reporting on this if that was the case.

Nothing is happening. Both Boris Johnson and Michel Barnier have had coronavirus, for a start.

@peoplewhoannoyyou Are you gaslighting? Wanting to “go back to a golden era” is the Brexit dream! In fact the slogan literally was to “take back control”!

Anyone who thinks we will have more negotiating power after this crisis clearly doesn't understand how this works and it’s pointless to try to explain it to them.

peoplewhoannoyyou - ''the whip hand in negotiations''

You actually made me laugh reading that. Yes indeed, with us being on track to have the highest mortality rate in Europe, our health service on it's knees with 100,000 NHS staff positions not filled BEFORE this virus hit. Now let's say compare ourselves to an EU country like Germany where they have plenty of hospital beds and medical staff, you can get tested the same day you call your GP and out of 150,000 cases has only had 5,000 deaths. We are at 133,000 and over 18,000 deaths not counting all the elderly who have died in care homes. Oh yes, we will defintely come out of this with a 'whip hand' against the EU.

Yes all countries will suffer greatl economic losses, so will we and it's more likely than not that we will have a greater economic depression precisely because of impact of Brexit that's already occurred to our economy.

One thing that is clear, given the way the government has handled the pandemic response so far, Brexit will be a complete disaster with them at the helm.

Perhaps the best we can hope for is five years of total chaos and then the next prime minister Keir Starmer holding a rejoin referendum.

It is beyond madness.

It is wilful destructive anarchism promoted by a eugenicist who wishes to rebuild society on the ashes of what used to be the economy.

I'm sure it'll be fine.

Cards on the table - I am opposed to Brexit and have always thought it was madness.
So you'd be saying this, pandemic or not? We've seen plenty of remainers over the last four years going "yes, of course I respect the wishes of the vote but now isn't the right time because of [insert crisis of the week]. It's pretty dishonest.

The economy could use some dynamism to kick start it again, deregulation and dropping tariffs are just the tonic. Prolonging uncertainty is not a good idea. The current situation is changing trade patterns and supply chains so why not get this over and done with while they're disrupted already?

Italy is going to need a massive bailout after this, if the transition was extended we'd be liable for a contribution. Negotiations are ongoing between David Frost and Michel Barnier, if really doesn't take long for most countries to negotiate a trade deal.

Germany where they have plenty of hospital beds and medical staff

"26 March The German news agency dpa reported last week that Berlin planned to bring in at least 75 Filipino nurses to Germany to assist in the country's fight against the novel coronavirus."

"The news sparked anger in the Philippines, which is struggling to cope with the COVID-19 cases, hampered by a weak public health system."

www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-demand-for-filipino-nurses-increases-in-europe/a-52927591

"9 March A diplomatic spat has erupted between Germany and neighbours Switzerland and Austria over a decision last week by Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government to ban most exports of protective medical equipment."

"Switzerland has called in the German ambassador to complain about the decision to block a shipment of 240,000 face masks, while Austria’s economy minister demanded her German counterpart order the release of supplies destined for her country."

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-09/germany-faces-backlash-from-neighbors-over-mask-export-ban

newbie The people who would be affected the most are the ones who voted for Brexit

I kind of wish this was true, but I think the damage will be felt by all of us, and that poor people will be particularly disadvantaged if we leave with no deal.

Oh, look! Cut'n'paste Clavinova has shown up.

I'm hoping we have a GE before then. If and when we are on the other side of this crisis, we may find the government's utter ineptitude will bring it down.

I think it's abundantly clear that Boris is not prime minister material, he's great for clownish bluster that wins elections but he can't govern his way out of a paper bag. We shouldn't be surprised though, we just have to look at his record as Mayor of London and even worse as the worst Secratary of State on record.

BaileysforBreakfast

Have you calculated the UK's increased EU budget contributions if we extend the transition period? £2 billion per month? Who is going to bail out Italy?

Will there even be a EU to negotiate with?
The European Union can't even decide a coherent policy to deal with this virus. Many countries will be wrecked and economically ruined.
I think that there will be many changes within the EU over the next few years.
It's entirety and blatantly obvious which countries are favoured financially by Brussels.
IMO the EU are going to hell in a handcart, if Britain goes for an extension it will be tied to the disastrous policy being pursued there.

Ddraig So you'd be saying this, pandemic or not?
Don't be silly. The whole crux of my argument is that we shouldn't willfully add more uncertainty when we are in the midst of a crisis. Nobody knows when businesses will re-open, when schools will start to function again, what the actual damage to the economy will be, so, IMO, this seems like a strange time to take a massive leap in the dark.
if really doesn't take long for most countries to negotiate a trade deal.
Words fail me

Incidentally, do we have any agreement with regard to Northern Ireland yet?

I agree - I think its madness to add additional uncertainty on top of everything else. There will be no appetite in the EU for negotiations right now, and this is going to go on for months yet.
Tbh I had thought that BJ would be secretly pleased about this outbreak - it gives him the perfect excuse, either for Brexit being a hit show, or for postponing.

Tbh though I'm almost at the point now that I'd be fine with no deal - let the chickens come home to roost. Just a shame that the millionaire cunts who've been pulling the strings and manipulating the media since the beginning won't be sinking with us.

Brexit negotiations are still taking place you just don't get to hear about them in the media because there is another much bigger news event taking place right now.

Brexit negotiations are still taking place you just don't get to hear about them in the media because there is another much bigger news event taking place right now.

I think most news outlets can cope with reporting on more than a single story.

@DdraigGoch

"The economy could use some dynamism to kick start it again, deregulation and dropping tariffs are just the tonic"

Let me help you quantify the impact of said "dynamism" to the economy: By the Treasury's analysis, it will reduce GDP by 3.8% to 7.5%.

Is that dynamic enough for you?

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517415/treasury_analysis_economic_impact_of_eu_membership_web.pdf