To be annoyed at IVF comments

[Strawberryshortcake28]

My IVF was cancelled due to CV which although was devestating I completely agree and understand money and resources need to be better spent elsewhere

What I am annoyed about is the comments I have been hearing about how it shouldn't be available in the first place on the NHS and it is a waste of money

Infertility is a disease! Caused by all different health issues imagine not being able to have your own DC
Imagine trying every month and getting your hopes up for years and years to be disappointed month on month

Imagine watching all your friends have their dc and think you'll never get the chance and feeling like you have nothing in common anymore
Imagine waking up every Xmas or mother's day with no DC to spend it with

Infertility has been the hardest experience of my life and made me severely depressed IVF gives me hope .

Yes you can go private and pay for it yourself but not everyone is in the financial position a lot of couples spend thousands on treatment with no DC at the end the NHS could be their last hope give them one more shot
Yes adoption may be an option but not everyone can be approved or is it an easy process

Aibu to be angry ?

If women need a reminder on how much discrimination they face in 2020 look no further then the comments around IVF.

1. Infertility is NOT a lifestyle choice

2. Viagra is avail on the NHS - why is no one calling for this to be stopped in favour of treating obesity/diabetes ..ever?

1. IVF cycles on the NHS are ALREADY limited.
2. Women contribute to half NHS revenues so have a right to DEMAND IVF as key service which means there should be NO comparisons with other services like viagra

5. Until women step up to politics and vote for women who are not sycophants to men to fight for their right not to be subjected to insult and discrimination at every turn nothing will ever change.

peperethecat I’m not against ivf on the nhs, I’m clarifying the questions. I wish we could have an open debate, I appreciate it’s an emotive subject, I do genuinely think no one is trying to be rude.

Mental health in terms of nhs treatment is an interesting one, covering psychosis, ptsd, addiction, depression. It’s usually a case of help yourself unless your physical safety or the physical safety of others is risked.

Sorry @JingsMahBucket I think what you meant to say is ‘oh it is a disease I’m sorry I don’t know what I’m talking about and instead spout my mouth off about stuff I have no idea about’

Or you could always lobby the WHO to ‘stop calling everything a disease now because jingsmabucket doesn’t think certain things should be diseases’

YANBU op. I am very sorry

You’d be better on the infertility board though. These threads never go well on AIBU

@peperethecat thank you. Yes we possibly could get the money together but we'll have to wait for the time being anyway as we may need our savings to fund mortgage, bills etc depending on what happens with our jobs this year. It's such a difficult time for everyone and we're all stuck in limbo at the moment.

Infertility is NOT a disease. For that alone you are being unreasonable..

I absolutely think it should be funded on the NHS and everywhere should get the same entitlement like in Scotland, not a postcode lottery depending on trust.

As someone who did not struggle to conceive because of nothing other than good fortune and who is sitting with my very much loved toddler on my lap, who has brought immeasurable joy to my life, it would be pretty awful of me to say otherwise tbh.

@firsttimemum30 infertility does not cause what many diseases causes, inability to live a normal life, physical pain etc. stop now you’re actually embarrassing yourself.

IVF doesn’t fix the infertility it just gives you the hopefully desired outcome but it doesn’t fix or treat the condition.

I think that’s where the grey area is. The nhs fixes people. Having a baby but still being infertile is not a fix it’s a plaster.

Huh? Being infertile or fertile only matters if you want to have a baby! If the treatment can make that happen for you then it is as good as fixing it. It’s not like it causes ongoing health issues (and if you have any arising from the condition that made you infertile, eg endometriosis, there is no issue with getting NHS treatment for that).

For some people having one baby is all the fix they need (this is my own experience).

However even if you argue that being infertile means you are always limited in the size of family you can have, so in that sense it is an ongoing condition that can’t be “fixed”, that doesn’t come into the “should it be available on the NHS?” debate because the NHS already has a policy of one IVF pregnancy per couple and it’s not available if one of the couple already has a child.

@SarahInAccounts maybe maternity services and health visitors should be chargeable with that logic. A c-section is easily £10k+. If you can’t afford all of that, then how can you afford a child?! Do you even know how much IVF costs as a matter of interest?

@Esspee it isn’t a disease??! Quick. Ring the actual world health organisation and the British medical council and the NHS and tell them they’re all wrong. What is the world coming to when all medical professionals and governing bodies don’t even know what a disease is anymore

Perhaps we can say third children or above have to be self-funded in terms of antenatal care and delivery and that money can go towards giving people just one child of their own? That seems like a nice compromise, hmm?

Being angry won't help anything and, just as you are entitled to your opinion that it should be available on the NHS, others are entitled to believe otherwise.

Hip and knee replacements used to be rationed and, more recently, they aren't given unless you are in such severe pain that it wakes you at night. I would far rather these operations be given, along with cataract operations, surgery that massively enhances the quality of life for (generally) older people. These would lead to better mobility and a reduction in other illnesses resulting from a lack of mobility.

We can't do everything on the NHS. If there can't be joint replacements when needed then I really don't think there should be IVF.

How about we save money for the NHS by charging everyone for each scan they have and any treatment they have during pregnancy and charge them for labour and delivery of a baby. It’s a great idea as we would save so much more money than we would just taking away the 1-3 cycles of ivf someone gets.

Or would you posters not be in favour of that as it would affect you??

Big hugs OP.

I can't stand people who reduce the NHS offering IVF to 'it's taking money away from cancer' as if that's all the NHS does, IVF or cancer.

Infertility means something is wrong with someone's body. We investigate lots of issues about people's bodies not working as they should. We support lots of huge families on the NHS, why not support someone to have one child, thereby fixing the problem the error (wrong phrasing) in their body caused?

Yes you need money to do that, and I don't think IVF is priority number 1, but I also think it deserves a place in the treatments available when lots of other non-urgent treatments are. People who don't agree with it 'just because' or because 'that money could go to cancer' aren't thinking the whole system through. It's not as if you can just turn up and easily get free IVF as it is!

But they won't get that, so no point arguing.

If you think women should be able to freeze eggs and get IVF because they get cancer, then why shouldn't someone in the same situation without the cancer get the same help? They both have the same problem. Why is one more deserving than the other?

If IVF should not be funded because having children is not a right, then antenatal and obstetric care would have to be privately funded too.

@Strawberryshortcake28 No, you're not being unreasonable.

You are missing the point (in the original post, at least) that it's not just NHS treatment that's being cancelled. Private fertility treatment is also being cancelled.

It's unfair that people are getting pregnant the natural way in lockdown, but it's apparently waaaayyyy too risky to get pregnant by IVF. I can see the issues about social distancing, and I agree with the clinics who have decided to see patients who will suffer unduly by waiting due to advancing age.

[Yours with two gorgeous DS from fertility treatment. Once from taking meds to prepare for an IVF cycle and the other from a first cycle of IVF].

Having read through many many horrific threads about IVF both on MN and in other places I have felt the need to post as I have see such unkind comments.

Firstly should IVF be free on NHS - often I have seen so many nasty comments on this but I truly truly believe it should because where do you draw the line with things that the nhs pays for?

The mental health implications for not having IVF should not be underestimated and the cost of these should also not be underestimated. Unfortunately there have been many cases of suicide due to infertility.

Another thing I hear very often is how will you afford a child if you cant afford ivf?

The outlay for ivf is very expensive thousands of pounds a time. Now I dont know that many people who could well afford the thousands it costs over cycle because I don't. That doesn't mean to say they cant afford a child.

Another one I have heard too many times for me to count is why not adopt a child there are plenty of children who need homes. My response is this this can apply to any person who wants a child not just the infertile.

IVF may not fix the problem which is one I hear an awful too. I know I am aware of the success rates but it does offer a glimmer of hope to so many.

For me though it comes down to for many people not all is that until you have faced the awful hell that is infertility you will never understand it never appreciate the all consuming nature of it, never appreciate having to accept the only chance of starting a family is though an intervention that may not actually work.

You will never appreciate just how lonely the planet is when you are facing IVF and how close one can become to spiralling out of control because of it.

You will never appreciate how hard it is to act normal and pretend to be happy every time there is a pregnancy announcement.

You will never appreciate the guilt that you feel for being filled with sadness when a friend says they are pregnant.

Facing infertility and climbing mount Everest in flip flops. It seems and for so many is impossible.

OP you have my sympathy and I hope that once your treatment can resume that you are successful in having a child.

I was lucky that I could afford to pay for several rounds of IVF and lucky that is 'only' took me four years to have my DD. If I had relied on the NHS my DD wouldn't be here. Living through infertility is pretty grim even though you try to count your blessings.

People will always have strong opinions on what the NHS should cover and honestly I don't know what the answer is.

@SpillTheTeaa I don’t “need” to do anything thanks!

Type 2 diabetes is the one that for the most part is caused by poor diet and exercise and mostly self inflicted.

@Fimofriend I wasn’t being rude, for gods sake what is wrong with people, I was defending fertility treatment and you still have to moan! it’s just the best analogy I can think of, that if we stop funding IVF where do we draw the line with the NHS?

If that's your attitude there should be a one child policy or an encouragement for fertile people to limit family size rather than not funding IVF.

I do actually think that the Government should be doing this, or at least discouraging people from having more than 2. The environment can't sustain an ever-growing population. We're stopping at 1.

I'm on the fence personally. I do think it is a bit tactless for people to tell you that they don't think IVF should be funded on the NHS without you bringing it up when you are just explaining how disappointed you are with the cancellations, but I don't think they are unreasonable to hold those views.

The question of whether it is labelled a disease or not is a bit meaningless IMO, and likely a political decision (didn't homosexuality used to be classified as a disease?). It may be the body is not functioning properly, but if the only effect is not being able to reproduce then some will have limited sympathy and see it as a benign condition especially those who do not want children or who think the world is already overpopulated.

Personally, I think the more important thing would be weighing up the costs of the treatment against the potential risk to MH if not carried out. I would be interested in any research in this area if anyone knows of it. It is also important to recognise that for many people IVF will be unsuccessful and those people will have to go through the stress of IVF with no good outcome.

I also think there is a big difference in the public's attitude when looking at a healthy couple in their late 20s/30s who cannot get pregnant vs. a couple in their late 30s who may just be struggling because they didn't meet until they were older.

I'd be interested in seeing any figures about how much fertility actually costs the NHS a year. I have not been able to find this information myself.

This, and other issues, are the reasons why when the current crisis ends there needs to be a thorough rethink about the purpose of the NHS, it was established over 70 years ago to deal with sickness. Since then the terms have been stretched to breaking point. I understand that your infertility problems are heart-breaking for you but it's debatable whether its an illness.

@ksf5555xxx I agree!

Viagra certainly isn’t a “needed” treatment more than IVF, but surprisingly as it affect males no one moans about funding it...?!

@Twinberry not sure if you were trying to put a point to or wind up the people saying they dont think IVF should be funded by the NHS but that's actually not a very pleasant thing for people who cant have kids to read...

as for the debate in hand, I think the way it is atm is reasonable - limited to a certain amount of times, the only thing I would maybe add is that certain criteria should be met (age, smoking, weight etc.) because statistically it's less likely to be successful sadly