To think that some police are just yobs in uniform

[lightnesspixie]

YANBU OP. The police force attracts yobs and bullies and unfortunately tends to protect them too.

When the west indians came to the UK in the 60's and complained about being fitted up by the police they were told it was lies because bobby's would never behave like that.

Now here we are - caught on tape - its happening all the time and the real losers are the general public who pay their wages, and should be able to trust them no matter what. What happens to the weak today happens to the rest of us tomorrow.

MN is like reading the Daily Mail these days

Statement from police

Just like any profession, some are not very nice people. A uniform doesn't always change that unfortunately. But they're definitely not all like that.

Just like any profession, some are not very nice people. A uniform doesn't always change that unfortunately. But they're definitely not all like that.

Well the two stood watching and doing nothing while he kicks off are clearly of the same ilk, so that's three out of three on this occasion.

Suggests the odds aren't great for the rest, doesn't it?

I'm a police officer. I sometimes feel very sad that people use specific examples to villify the whole institution in a far more vociferous way than usually seen for other professions, but I understand why and it comes with the territory. We have a lot of power and it is right we are challenged about misusing it.

I'm not going to defend the indefensible. As a police officer I am paid to be able to hang on to my patience and integrity more so than the rest of the population. If I fail to do so I should be judged proportionate to the degree with which I failed. Threatening trumped up charges is unacceptable no matter what the provocation.

It won't make up for his actions nor others like him, but this is one reason the College of Policing (for all its other sins) introduced the Code of Ethics. There is now a responsibility on all officers to report ant behaviour they witness which falls below an acceptable standard. Not doing so leaves them open to disciplinary procedures also. My force has enshrined this as part of its values and has an anonymous reporting route. I'm aware of several cases where it's been put into practice. I've also managed out two PCs for unacceptable behaviour myself in the last 12 months, which included taking accounts from their colleagues. Recruiting practices have also changed to try to better screen out those who join on a power trip. We're looking for problem solvers who know how to emgage with people these days. I hope, over time time, all these things will combine to result in cases like this video becoming considered an anomaly by the whole population, not just the police and those pro police. Sadly they will never be eliminated entirely as no profession can claim this. When we fail the only response is transparency and robust action. As the force responsible has said they are referring on to the IOPC that seems to be what they are doing.

The statement posted by @whataballbag does not do much to allay my misgivings about the police as an organisation. The officer in question was suspended only because a member of the public happened to record the event and it ended up on social media. Similar events happen all the time. There is a widespread conspiracy of silence within the force. The "few bad apples" are protected by everyone else. I can't think of an incident like this one where officers have ever been disciplined because their colleagues have reported them. That's the problem. The behaviour in that video clip is acceptable to the vast majority of officers, even if they don't engage in it themselves.

*@whataballbag it's been doing the rounds hasn't it. As soon as I saw the thread I knew it would be this!

Well since you're psychic there's thread on here right now begging for your skills !

The incident didn't involve "one" of their officers though. There were two others who could have stepped in but clearly didn't feel the need.

I could almost sympathise with the one who lost the plot (almost!). It's beyond me why his colleagues would have let it happen, unless it's completely normal though.

@donquixotedelamancha Shouting mean things at someone who is aggressive to you is not the same as sexually assaulting someone.

But he didn't JUST shout mean things, did he?

1. He openly threatened to perjure himself.
2. He openly threatened to falsify charges. Both are criminal acts.
3. Had he carried out those threats - and the silence of his colleagues continued he would have instigated a criminal record against that boy and potentially put him in jail.

He also appeared to be so confident in his threats as to beg the question when has he done this before? Maybe when it happens to your kid you'll stop minimising this crap.

It won't make up for his actions nor others like him, but this is one reason the College of Policing (for all its other sins) introduced the Code of Ethics. There is now a responsibility on all officers to report ant behaviour they witness which falls below an acceptable standard.

But it's clearly not working. There are two other officers in the video who stood by and watched their colleague threaten to fit someone up, and did fuck all. There are three officers in that video, and they're all morally bankrupt in my book.

You can talk about codes of ethics all you like but the evidence is they won't make a mote of difference in the real world.

Yes, some of them definitely are.
I know someone in an abusive relationship right now- she has told the police, they've done absolutely nothing. Yet they apparently have time to monitor people's shopping baskets.

Honestly- fck them. They are demonising people going for two walks a day whilst this young girl gets beaten by her boyfriend and they are doing nothing. It disgusts me.

@CatOnLaptop, straight question for you: if the victim in the video were to make a complaint - without video evidence, obvs - do you think the other two officers would (a) give a full and frank account of their colleague's crimes (and there are at least two offences committed) or (b) say 'didn't see nothing, guv'nor'?

Because if the answer's probably (b) (and here's a clue - the answer's (b)) your code of ethics unfortunately doesn't mean a thing in the real world.

*1. He openly threatened to perjure himself.

1. He openly threatened to falsify charges. Both are criminal acts.*

Getting up close in someone's face like that and screaming counts as common assault, I'm pretty sure, so that's three separate crimes. Were you and I to do the same to him, we'd be up before the beak. This guy's probably going to get off with 'words of advice', even with the video evidence.

@ksf5555xxx was that a poor attempt at sarcasm?

No.. the rest of us are just not interested in you derailing the thread is all.

@ksf5555xxx whataballbag was actually replying to me if you read the comment, this is quite a big deal in our area at the minute and like whataballbag I too clicked on this thread knowing what it was going to be about. I think you’ll find you’re the only one derailing the thread with your unnecessary sarcasm.

Friend of mine female got arrested for being drunk. Wrong I know so does she. Anyway the police dislocated her elbow, she was covered in bruises. She was in pain and was not allowed to see a doctor. Well done police Scotland.

@thedancingbear I was going to ask @CatOnLaptop the same question....

I've also managed out two PCs for unacceptable behaviour myself in the last 12 months, which included taking accounts from their colleagues.

How many police officers that you know of have had to do the same? 2 in 12 months is an incredibly high number for you to have managed alone, also the time it took you to take accounts from their colleagues...?

Do you feel like your in the minority in doing this? I'd assume you'd be putting yourself at risk of scrutiny from your colleagues for 'outing them' - good on you for doing it, but the possible personal backlash for you must be worrying.

Recruiting practices have also changed to try to better screen out those who join on a power trip.

I'm glad recruiting practices are changing, this should have happened a long time ago, prior to it having to be filmed and evidenced.

@Umnoway the exact same happened to me - a friend who had always, to me, been kind and easygoing joined the police and turned into a sanctimonious trumped up little prick. She was suddenly exceptionally classist and would talk with ease about specific incidents she'd attended and sneer about things like "teenage girls making up rape claims, and you can tell the moment you look at them".

I cut ties after she told me about an incipient that was well publicised in our area, a 20-something lad was being chased by police on suspicion of a misdemeanour and he'd jumped over a bridge not knowing there was a large drop and fell to his death. She said "he was a scumbag anyway and no one will miss him". Awful. Gave her short shrift (to which she did the whole "I put my life on the line for people like that") and never spoke to her again

thedancingbear and Taddda - those two particular officers? I can't comment on. However, in my own force yes I would be confident. Those two officers I managed out - it was their colleagues who approached me. Also, no, I don't feel unusual or at risk for tackling it. I'm just one of many doing so. Things really are changing and there's a huge internal emphasis on tackling under performance or breach of professional standards. That's why I'm so furious with the officer in the footage. The actions of someone like that undoes the actions of 100 like me.

The police need to show a positive culture change. They've already started that process and taken it a long way in my view but then I would say that as I see it daily. But just as the ontroduction of PACE took years to achieve wholesale change, nothing changes overnight. I accept that it takes time to achieve change at all levels to such an extent that the public perceive - and importantly trust - it. The mandatory wearing/use of body worn video (a big thing in my force) has a huge role to play in this. The first step to trust is transparency and accountability.

Meanwhile, for what it's worth, all those like me can do is keep doing our best, keep calling out poor behaviour, and apologise (and follow it up with action) when we fall short of the high standards the public has every right to expect from us.

CatOnLaptop, what would you expect to happen with regard to the other officers in that footage? Is there an expectation that they should have stepped in to stop it and therefore failed in their duty or is it OK to let a member of the public be treated like that as long as you report it later?

Or if they didn't report it?

I'm not saying they need sacking but surely they should have done "something"?

@CatOnLaptop Do you think that a major change at recruitment level is what is needed? Monitoring personal interactions with peers at base level?

Many can interview well, score highly on tests, pass BFT's...this might have changed with 'Code of Ethics' being put in place but does that include psychological evaluations- not through interview, but through witnessed behaviour whilst at college?

I grew up in a family of police, also military- the bullying at college/ training level was discussed on various occasions plus the 'Dinner party' stories of what was happening on the job....so my views might be slightly biased, but it did not fill me with confidence that some of these people being discussed had so much power.

I said on a previous post that this is not new behaviour, in fact I think the situation is improving within the force (that it's taken so long and needed to be recorded and evidenced is appalling).

It does leave the question 'how many people have already suffered at the hands of this', backed up with some of the pp's giving stories of personal experience.

Policing is obviously a difficult job in so many aspects- but as you very rightly stated it is also one that demands public confidence-

FWIW I find your posts reassuring.