Where do people think money comes from?

[MrsBlobbyOnLockdown]

Everyday we are hearing pay the NHS an extra 30% pay them £26 per day extra is the latest one.

I’m not disputing they deserve it of course they do & if we had an endless supply of money it’s the first place it should go.

But seriously, where do people think all this money is coming from?

What are your thoughts

Personally I think the NHS is a shambles at management level but employs great people
at the care level.

A friend of mine worked for the NHS for 30 years. He was a lower level Manager. Some years he got a pay rise of up to £9k just because they had a budget to spend to get it again the year after. He didn’t have to take on any responsibilities for that. When he was made redundant he had a salary of £67,000 a year. His job in private industry would hone paid around £50k I think. He also had all the benefits, in particular the final salary pension. They made him redundant and he was paid a lot of money and then remarkably he was taken back on self employed on a contract basis doing the same job on £500 a day. That for me is crazy. He was overpaid in the first place and admits this. By the end he was earning over £100k a year on a rolling 12 month contract. It’s just bad management and negligence at these levels for me. I was gob smacked when he told me this.

I’m gobsmacked too, to the extent I don’t believe a word of it.

How much does our Nanny state - free health care - encourage irresponsibility in those advantaged by it, I think we have the highest rate of obesity in Europe.

How much does our Nanny state - free health care - encourage irresponsibility in those advantaged by it, I think we have the highest rate of obesity in Europe

Its not free, we pay billions in taxes for it.
But thank fuck we have a nanny state or we'd now be digging mass graves as has happened in the USA.

Obesity is due to lax food regulation, v poor public health funding, little provision for exercise, the removal of compulsory cooking/nutrition lessons in school and poor sports provision in the state sector.
Add in a work culture that sees UK workers putting in more hours than any other EU country and its hardly surprising we are a nation of fatties.

If we pay more tax we get better public services.

Only if the money is spent wisely and inefficiency/waste is challenged.

No point pouring ever increasing amounts of water into a leaky bucket. You also need to plug the holes!

Obesity is due to lax food regulation, v poor public health funding, little provision for exercise, the removal of compulsory cooking/nutrition lessons in school and poor sports provision in the state sector.

Nothing to do with personal responsibility and self control then?

It’s just bad management and negligence at these levels for me. I was gob smacked when he told me this.

Yep, I know one just like that. Taken on as a contractor on a 1 year contract for a specific social care initiative, £500 per day. After a couple of months, the NHS changed the initiative and her work disappeared overnight. Because she was on contract, they couldn't get rid of her, so she spent the next 10 months doing filing and photocopying because they couldn't find anything else for her to do. £500 per day for basic admin! And they claim there's no waste/inefficiency!

Nothing to do with personal responsibility and self control then?

Address that to Johnson, one of the fatest PMs of all time.

To be responsible for your own health, you need to have a certain amount of education, support and money, not all of us learned cooking skills with our parents.
Obesity levels in the UK have gone up hand in hand with cuts to public services.

Obesity is due to people putting too much foods into their mouth. The NHS should remove every slot machine for a start and ban junk food from its premises and only let people drink tap water for a start.

Obesity is due to people putting too much foods into their mouth.

In a simplistic view yes. If a person’s motivation in understanding obesity is to bash on fat people that is as deep as they need to go. But if a person’s motivation is to help reduce obesity they need to think deeper.

For example:

Why are some people putting too much food in their mouths and not others?
Is ”too much” the same for everyone? If not, why not?
Is obesity evenly distributed across the population? If not, why not? What do groups with low obesity have in common? What do groups with high obesity have in common? What are the differences between those groups? Are the differences regional, economic, social, physiological, psychological?
What do people who try and fail to lose weight have in common? What do people who try and succeed have in common? What are the differences between those groups? Are the differences regional, economic, social, physiological, psychological? How do you define successful weight loss?
Are non-obese people who gained then lost weight different to non-obese people who have never been fat? Are the differences regional, economic, social, physiological, psychological?

Because to fix a problem you need to address root causes, not just the immediate cause.

@user1497207191, I worked as a contractor in the NHS for years. This is another account that doesn’t ring true. Contracts are on a week’s notice, that’s the entire point of them. And £500 a day is a distant dream, they’ve been on a band equivalence for years.

As for your tale which you trot out at every opportunity @Runningawaywiththecircus, maybe your handsomely paid husband should look at ways extra money could be used to improve his service rather than supplying his child with tax funded devices.

I worked as a contractor in the NHS for years. This is another account that doesn’t ring true. Contracts are on a week’s notice, that’s the entire point of them. And £500 a day is a distant dream, they’ve been on a band equivalence for years.

I was her accountant - I did her book-keeping and tax returns. She was definitely earning £500 per day for a year - that's fact - I saw the bank statements! I don't know exactly what she did when at work as I wasn't holding her hand, so I can only go by what she told me.

you seem to pretty much doubt anyone who suggests the NHS is anything other than the beloved firstborn of Jesus Christ and Father Christmas, is financially watertight, cannot be improved and we should stop the Thursday clapping and start genuflecting and flogging ourselves before it instead

You have such a gift for hyperbole. I willingly acknowledge that there’s a huge amount that could and should be improved in the NHS and would be the first to recognise that it needs root and branch reform. I’ve seen its faults first hand. What I object to is one off dubious anecdotes that are supposed to evidence that it’s all rubbish.

I know two people who work in management in the NHS. I would say both are vastly overpaid, one had a job “made” for them by a pal that was two grades above their existing job. There was no competition for the role and it didn’t seem that it was something required. But she told me that even if the role was made redundant she would be guaranteed another job at the same level. She earns about the equivalent of 3 nurses with a final salary pension.

Management and administration of the NHS is a huge mess imo and there are vast amounts of money being wasted.

@TheWordWomanIsTaken - I’m glad you admit that shareholders who take dividends rather than salaries are avoiding tax. This does all add up to quite a substantial amount I would think.

What is your basis tho for claiming it’s “pretty negligible compared to the avoidance around transfer pricing by big companies who register in tax friendly jurisdictions”? Also please clarify what you mean by that.

Please restrict your response to just facts rather than rants/personal attacks.

Sunak's magic money tree will drop rotting fruit all over future generations

Read Brittannia Unchained to see what the current cabinet want to do to this country

Just placemarking

In Star Trek, there is no 'money'. People just work without money.

Money is a fascinating subject. Really interested to see this discussion.

Personally I think the NHS is a shambles at management level but employs great people at the care level.

Fully agree with that. Almost all our experiences of the NHS over the past 40/50 years have been fine once we've got through the admin/reception/management systems. The actual people who do the treatment and care are mostly excellent. But what a sod it is to get through the barriers they put up to get there.

I remember a few decades ago, a GP telling me to return in a week's time to for a review appointment. I knew from experience (even back then) that there'd be no appointments if I went to the receptionist desk and I told the GP that I'd not get an appointment. He actually came out to the receptionist desk to TELL the receptionist to give me an appointment in a weeks' time - funny enough, she found an appointment.

Exactly the same happened whilst I was sat in oncology reception a couple of years ago waiting for my OH to have his chemo. A guy came in to ask for an appointment for a blood test at the same time as his chemo appointment - told point blank they couldn't do it and gave him a 10am bloods appointment when his chemo was 2pm in the afternoon - he protested that he'd have to hang around the waiting room for 4 hours, but they were adament. He was then called in for his consultant appointment and came back out a while later, with the consultant in tow, who TOLD the receptionist to give him a blood test appointment at 1.30 immediately before the chemo - again, funnily enough she found a slot. He guy had obviously told the consultant that he was having trouble getting a bloods appointment.

Far too many gate-keepers who are getting in the way.

It’s not unusual to have a budget surplus (there is no A&E at their hospital, for example) so it’s been brand new ipads every year. DS is the envy of his little friends with his nearly-new cast offs!

Load of rubbish, our company has supplied IT equipment to NHS and and Govt departments, all old PCs and laptops are asset tagged, recorded in an asset register and all environmentally disposed off, sold/charitable giving but always wiped by data cleansing companies, in accordance with WEEE and no-where does it say "Give to contractors child"

@Blibbyblobby in a lot of cases there is no "deeper meaning" to being overweight, people just buy unhealthy food because it is THERE. My colleagues are always moaning about being fat yet buy a cake from Costa every single day. If they didn't sell these cakes in the office, no-one could buy them. But cakes are tasty and very profitable, and free market capitalism means it's not in companies interests to stop selling junk food. Junk food is made to be addictive, you don't need to have deep-seated mental health issues or pre-existing conditions to walk through Sainsbury's wanting to buy ingredients for dinner and walking out with some crisps and a GU dessert.

How much does our Nanny state - free health care - encourage irresponsibility in those advantaged by it, I think we have the highest rate of obesity in Europe

How do you explain the levels of obesity in the USA with their non-nanny system?