Do you have a bullshit job?

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On zoom earlier with some friends and were having this discussion about what constitutes a 'bullshit job' (ie one that doesn't really matter in the great scheme of life.

Given the current circumstances and how life has really been pulled into focus we were thinking about what we contribute.

I was being smug as a teacher and then when I thought about it, all I really do is prepare kids for bullshit jobs!

We basically ended up with saying we need to live in small communities where everyone works for the good of that community with no travel - essentially going back hundreds of years. No bullshit jobs and living off the land.

Do you have a bullshit job? Has all this made you look at things differently?

There's a bigger question behind this. What is life for? Where is the value?

Although some people doing vital work are very well paid eg consultants (medical rather than management), most of the time, people with bullshit jobs are paid ridiculous salaries while the people who actually keep the country running are often paid a pittance.

The pandemic and lockdown have really brought that to the fore. It shows how fucked up the system is.

I've never had a job that isn't bullshit and have never met any one who doesn't

Bullshit jobs pay well because there is 0 fulfilment from them, so if they didn'tpay well nobody would do them. Nobody would be a banker or business analyst or some pointless mid-manager discussing "strategy" and "transformation" for 24k a year. Whereas people happily do nursing, teaching, medicine, care for that or less because they go to sleep at night knowing they've contributed to society.

Also because most bullshit jobs involve making profit for shareholders so can pay well, whereas the fulfilling ones are mainly public services so funded by government.

My brothers and sister have always earned great money in BS jobs. My sister at one time earning £50 hr on a project for a financial company when they knew the project was going to be dropped within the next 6 months - that pay went on for another 5 months though, followed by other similar work. Others were slightly less wasted but no less BS in terms of benefit to mankind.
I was a nurse, left to have kids and then worked in 3rd sector jobs with great satisfaction from the feedback - enabling socially disadvantaged to gain confidence and skills to change their future.
I'm the only one existing on basic pension.

Gosh wewearpink the usefulness of your job puts me to shame!

I don’t agree that all business jobs are bullshit
Businesses contribute to the economy and do add value
But The problem is when people think we need the bullshit jobs to be viable and credible

We need karen in payroll
We need Bob in sales

We don’t really need jo doing a wellbeing survey
Or Rebecca redesigning the survey
Or jon creating an internal newsletter
Or Betty running endless meetings about the CRM database

I don't really understand what these 'bs' jobs are? I always thought that well paid managers etc were clever/important/always very busy/stressed.

I'm a neonatal nurse, intensive care unit for premature/sick babies. I know my job is important. It would be nice if all jobs were valued more equally and there was a more level playing field across society. I struggle financially as a single mummy. But reading this, I'm not sure why others earn so much more.

But then lots of jobs have their own value, even if they are not currently 'essential'. For example, it's nice to buy new clothes sometimes (manufacturers, shop assistants etc), go for family days out and holidays (tourism industry, cafes etc), go to the theatre/cinema/exhibitions (musicians, actors) etc. Not all essential, but still nice. So which jobs are 'bs'?

My first job was a bullshit job in sales, and we were encouraged to get people, including those who couldn't afford it, to pay the maximum. I felt so lonely, like I was acting the whole time. It was such a horrible experience I went back and trained in another job which was very worthwhile but emotionally costly (the turnover is high). Now I do something which is part fulfilling (contact with students, researching worthwhile topics) with some bits of bullshit (admin which is ever increasing, too large groups so I don't get to know students individually, annual reviews that don't improve anything). I don't think even 'worthwhile' jobs these days have no bullshit in them.

We've got a target driven culture so most jobs will have bullshit elements to them. But that's different from the job itself being inherently bullshit ie completely pointless.

Bullshit jobs pay well because there is 0 fulfilment from them, so if they didn't pay well nobody would do them. Nobody would be a banker or business analyst or some pointless mid-manager discussing "strategy" and "transformation" for 24k a year. Whereas people happily do nursing, teaching, medicine, care for that or less because they go to sleep at night knowing they've contributed to society.

Being a banker, business analyst or strategist can be intellectually challenging and the money is good, therefore people do it.

I would happily do a job that kept my mind in high gear and paid me well for it. I would be much less keen to do a job with lots of repetitive elements to it even if it contributed to society if it did not pay me for my efforts. To each their own. I sleep well and work efficiently from home at full pay.

I’m a carer so I’m not in a bullshit job.

But within a day or two of lockdown I thought about “celebrities” and rich folk and how they put a lot of store by carrying the right handbag and wearing the right shoes. All bollocks. They won’t be buried in their Jimmy Choos and their Hermes Birkins (I googled expensive bags) will be on eBay before they’re cold.

I’m kidding myself but it would be great if this crisis was a great big reset button to make us all realise that we’re all equal. A cleaner in a covid ward is worth the same, if not more than any entertainer. A Chanel bag isn’t as valuable as a box of medical masks. A fashion designer who regurgitates old styles shouldn’t get as much credit as the volunteer people who sewed scrubs for NHS workers.

I know I’ve digressed from the original question but I’m not making any apologies for it! There will always be bullshit jobs because our bullshit lifestyles have created them!

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow 😂 I doubt that very much!

An ex awful friend is a life coach and stress counsellor and used to bleat on about how important her job was...it's all nonsense .. ironically her own life is totally chaotic and a disaster and she loves a self made crisis !! Awful woman..!!

I most certainly do a bullshit job. In finance. No personal job satisfaction whatsoever aside from the pay cheque. But it pays for the nice things in life which I don’t want to give up.

Teaching definitely isn't a bullshit job. Learning for the sake of it is important, because you want to and you love your subject. Teachers with enthusiasm or flair or a knack for inspiring kids do a massively important job.

I'm not a teacher.

@earsup I am a counsellor and I think it's an important role .. I earn below the average salary in the UK, and help different people on daily basis (although it has to be done online now). When we overcome COVID-19, I think counsellors will be in high demand in an already struggling and underfunded mental health sector.

I do the accounts and payroll for a charity so i guess not really bullshit. I also volunteer which i get a lot more from (supporting people with terminal illnesses).

Teaching is fabulous BUT the bs part for me is

What am I prepping them for!? A life in this bullshit system!! I try to do as much pastoral stuff with them to feel like I am truly contributing to their holistic wellbeing

I get you. Teaching, at its essence, is certainly not a bullshit job. But the framework through which you teach (our education system) is pretty bullshit!

I'm a translator and interpreter, so I feel like my role is kind of valuable, and it certainly would be if we went back to living in small isolated communities! But actually my clients are all big multinational monsters so my job is very much BS.

I was being smug as a teacher and then when I thought about it, all I really do is prepare kids for bullshit jobs!

If that's the case, it's a tragedy and a sad indictment of our educational system. Education should be about so much more than merely training for work.

Anyway I'm in IT. As I see it, my job is to make sure all my colleagues can do their jobs. Some of my colleagues do seem to have an awful lot of bullshit paperwork to deal with. I think that's what makes a job a "bullshit job", when you're spending more time and effort dealing with paperwork and navigating systems, compared to the core duties of the job. That and also when a job becomes reduced to the pursuit of targets and 'KPIs', often set to unreachable or nearly-unreachable levels, at the expense of doing real quality work.

If you remove all the ‘bullshit’ jobs, then you also need to remove a lot of the ‘essential’ services that the taxes created by those jobs.

It’s fine to say we should all live in communities that provide for their own needs, but you would need to wave goodbye to your health system, free education etc.

@KenDodd

here's a bigger question behind this. What is life for? Where is the value?

This is what the whole conversation boiled down to.

Essentially almost every job is bs because our society has its values wrong.

Almost everything, bar healthcare and food production (the things at the bottom of Maslows hierarchy) are geared towards materialism.

Producing More and buying more.

Creating some very rich people and some very poor people.

Creating mental health problems and an unhappy, competitive, lonely society.

I don't have the answers, it's just interesting to reflect on things and think about maybe how we can all do things differently after 'this'.

I teach an arts subject in schools. Pretty pointless in the grand scheme of the world but it pays the bills and I don't hate it

It's not a job per se, but I went from having a great job to confined in bed and using a wheelchair over a few days. So yes and yes.

I'd love to write and share the abuse I've suffered and how my disability has affected it, I think it would be very empowering.

My ex friend is not a proper qualified counsellor..she just added that to her services. No training in that area.. proper counsellor are not a non job. I wasn't very clear.