Do you have a bullshit job?

[bogrl]

On zoom earlier with some friends and were having this discussion about what constitutes a 'bullshit job' (ie one that doesn't really matter in the great scheme of life.

Given the current circumstances and how life has really been pulled into focus we were thinking about what we contribute.

I was being smug as a teacher and then when I thought about it, all I really do is prepare kids for bullshit jobs!

We basically ended up with saying we need to live in small communities where everyone works for the good of that community with no travel - essentially going back hundreds of years. No bullshit jobs and living off the land.

Do you have a bullshit job? Has all this made you look at things differently?

This is where I first came across the idea of bullshit jobs. (can't do a neat clicky link on my phone).

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/25/bullshit-jobs-a-theory-by-david-graeber-review

I was being smug as a teacher and then when I thought about it, all I really do is prepare kids for bullshit jobs!

Education is obviously important for any number of reasons, but society as a whole overstates the "impact" a teacher can have on a child's life chances. I remember reading research showing that bright kids succeed academically regardless of the teacher they have, and less bright kids fail academically, again regardless.

As a related point, I'm not against public schools per se, but the idea that you can just pull failing inner city schools up by warrant of a "tough head" or "inspirational teachers" is just so much deflective bullshit. The kids fail because their parents are non aspirational and don't value education, the kids don't have books at home or access to healthy food, and their streets are full of drugs. There will never be anything like equal opportunity unless the whole country changes from the roots upward.

The app turned it into a neat link for me! 😊

To qualify that, though: when I say teachers can't have that much impact I just mean academically. Of course a teacher can be a hell of a lot more than just a knowledge tree and can help mentor students through the toughest of times, and inspire them to achieve in a hundred other ways.

Just here to say I think teaching’s very important. Even just teaching a child to read, reading has such a huge influence on your quality of life, and some people, (ex h), think it happens instantly. It’s a hard slog. (I am not a teacher, by the way).

Yes and I've known for a long time that I have. I have often thought about doing something different, but I really don't know how I can. I certainly can't afford to retrain. I went to Uni when I was 18 so going back isn't an option as I'm not entitled to a loan.

I was hoping to be furloughed so I can volunteer, but my manager decided to retain me which means my workload has increased and I don't have as much time.

As much as I want lockdown to end (when ready and it's safe to do so) in some aspects, I really don't want to go back into the office. I'm really anxious about it.

Have had many bullshit jobs in my time. Am now self employed as a photographer and I help small businesses grow through my work - so not at all bullshit. Despite the crisis decimating my client base and income, I've not had a moment's envy of friends in jobs or on furlough - which is a good sign I'm on the right path 💙

I have believed for a long time most jobs will disappear. There will be care services and people running machines do do most other things. Eventually when this pandemic is over, powers will work harder to make sure people are not necessary.

In the fifties there were many typists sending out letters for organisations, now nearly all are computer generated.

There will be even more people on low wages and the middle income will definitely disappear. So little chance of climbing career ladders.

I was just having this conversation with DH watching the Together at Home show on the beeb. In our combined families we have one teacher and two admin in the NHS. The rest of us, and it is a large family, all have 'bullshit' jobs.

Has certainly made me think about how much we usefully contribute to society. Though some in the family, not me, are high earners so are at least contributing through taxes.

I work in health and safety, I'm not sure. I think my current job is bullshit but perhaps my industry isn't... I don't know?

When I left school I did a job where I checked the orders of a large holiday company. Reems and reems of orders, checked off with stock take figures. Did it so much I dreamt about it most nights. If I ever found a mistake I was to tell the boss. I found things wrong often, hundreds of pounds of mistakes weekly. The boss would just say something along the lines of “Oh, Ok, no worries”
There was an accountant? / senior checker type person (it was a long time ago) who worked for the Company and had done for about 30 years. He once told me that every single piece of work he did was completely irrelevant and that he could stare at the wall for 8 hours a day and file the work incomplete and no one would ever know or care 😂

Thing is, most jobs must be bullshit jobs, if we got rid of bullshit jobs we wouldn't have much left.

I do think one of the things which will come out of this is recognition for just how much other than teaching the educational system is responsible for.

I adore teaching, I teach young people with behavioural issues so it is far more about personal development than exams.

But when you dig deep enough into almost any job (bar healthcare and food production) it is ALL tied into capitalism and workforce productivity. And it makes us unhappy!

Crematorium Tech. Working more than ever! deffo not a bullshit job.

Well, I’ve often been told I do. But right now my main focus is keeping our staff safe from the virus, making sure that the food we produce is safe from the virus, and keeping the supply chain of food that we produce going. So yeah, maybe not so bullshit after all.

@KenDodd

Totally! Personally I would welcome a big systematic change in the way our world is run.

But I fear we are too attached to the trappings of consumerism and will all go back to bullshit jobs/cheap clothing/flying for holidays etc etc...

My brother is a forensic scientist who deals with things ranging from how drunk people were when they committed a crime to how they came to die. I'm very intrigued by your game! In the scheme of things is that a bullshit job please say yes so I can rub it in his smug face?

No I work in an NHS hospital on the front line. My job is valuable in real terms, but not financially (I earn less than £10 per hour).

I'm in policy. Proper bullshit

Farmer! Genuine non bullshit job right there!!

Apart from the literal bullshit!

@SuckingDownDarjeeling

I guess if we are discussion his job in respect to how our society is now then his job is vital.

However it is only vital in a bullshit society.

If we had a society where alcohol was not a problem because MH problems were fewer because we are happier because we don't live in a bullshit society then his job, theoretically, is bullshit.

Tell him that from me ;)

I have a job that's important in what I actually do, but bullshit in that it just means someone else can palm it off, to do a bullshit job they'd rather do

So 🤷🏻‍♀️

Likely going to be out of a job though so I'll need a new one, whether it's bullshit or not is going to have to take a backseat to paying the bills 😕

@bogrl yesss!!! ahem okay thank you I'll let him know.

😂

I was a counsellor, many moons ago.
Relationship and bereavement. Judging by the waiting lists for our services we were very much in demand.
I hope I helped some clients to deal in a positive way with their losses and maybe keep them from long term antidepressants

I help women leave bullshit jobs and find jobs that combine purpose and paying the bills (it's a myth that you have to choose between those two things).

It's based on my own experience of leaving a corporate job.

I'm actually interviewing 10+ women that I know who have left bullshit jobs for jobs with purpose that also pay decent money over the next week or so to share on social media which I'm quite excited about.

All to try and break the myth that you can't have a meaningful job and earn decent money...