to think we really are 2 completely different cultures - the USA and the UK - just looking at the 'rebellion' taking place

[chomalungma]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8228769/Bleak-figures-China-US-economic-hit-virus.html

I know it's only some Americans. I know that it's a massive country with many many more people than the UK

But these scenes are astounding. People flocking to beaches. Protesting about lockdown.
Protesting with guns about lockdown

You just can't imagine these scenes in the UK at the moment.
Especially not the Ohio Zombie picture

It just amazes me - sometimes you think we are very similar to the USA, and then many times, you realise we are completely different.

Question[s] for people actually living in the US and posting on this thread:

The country is not a mess. One thing that non-Americans don't often realize is that most of our services are delivered by state and local government, not federal. Where I live in New York we have great schools, emergency services, police protection, public parks, etc. National politics are polarized, but have been before even more severely (think civil war, prohibition, neutrality before WWII, etc.). Our combative political culture is part of what drives us forward.

I love living here and feel perfectly safe here. There were neighborhoods in NYC I used to work in that I was cautious in, and was assaulted working in A&E a couple of times, but that comes with the job.

Food is cheap and plentiful here. We do not struggle, but DH and I both have professional jobs and are sensible with money. DH is also a very good long term investor. We own our home free and clear, have a nice pension pot and no other debts. Our biggest challenge with money is paying for uni for the two DC.

I have excellent health insurance through my job and the medical resources here amazing, if a bit overwhelmed right now. I have a couple of specialists I see and can usually get an appointment in a week or less. The last time I needed an MRI I got it the day after it was ordered. People come to New York from all over the world for the advanced medical care we have here.

Both kids got excellent educations. DS is now in his second year at uni and DD was accepted by several very prestigious universities and has just made her choice. She's supposed to start in the fall, but it's unclear at this point if she'll actually be on campus.

Life in the US isn't perfect, but it's often very good and I am very glad to be here.

We have a good life in the US, can pay our bills and have good healthcare. My DH and his siblings all went to excellent public schools but we moved(for a job) to a city that has a variable school system so are currently paying for private for our DC. We keep reassessing as they could test into a magnet public school - but they're both happy atm so we're stretching ourselves to pay the fees.

We're aware that life could easily change for us with a job loss, as there's not much of a social safety net. I'm strongly in favor of universal healthcare (perhaps similar to Germany's with a multi-payer health care system). I think it's ludicrous to tie healthcare to employment as it restricts job mobility. Obamacare has helped alleviate this, but much more needs to be done.

I'm strongly anti-gun as well. Generally feel safe where I live but I see no reason for the average person to carry firearms.

That's my two cents worth, I'll get off my soapbox now.

@HannaYeah There are things that are better here, like that it’s cheaper to run a car, huge variations in landscape and climate to be able to travel domestically, we live in a larger house than we’d have in the UK and eating at restaurants is more affordable.

But on the whole I think quality of life is better in the UK. We get next to no annual leave so travelling is very difficult, health insurance is exorbitant and accessing health care is an absolute minefield. People are much more focused on the individual and ‘I’m alright, Jack’ and don’t seem to have much interest in community wellbeing. Where I live is disappointingly segregated.

Property taxes is the other ridiculous thing. We pay SO much in property tax, so even when you’re mortgage is paid off you are never EVER free of housing costs like in the UK. I’ve seen friends have to sell beloved homes they’ve had for years because the value, and therefore the taxes, made it unaffordable.

*your. Stupid autocorrect.

so even when you’re mortgage is paid off you are never EVER free of housing costs like in the UK

Don't people pay council tax in the UK whether or not they have a mortgage?

@SenecaFallsRedux I don’t believe you have to pay council tax once you’re over 65, a full time student or on benefits, at least where I’m from.

But council tax is a lot less than property tax. Our tax rate is 3.5%, so on a normal $300,000 home (lower end where we are) that’s over $10,000 a year! Plus that pays for waste collection/recycling, which is something we pay separately for in my city/state.

Like everything else, property tax rates are state based. Most cities also have a property tax.

On top of that we also pay income tax in most cities, states and sometimes local municipalities.

Adding all of that up for me it’s still much less than I’d end up paying if I lived in most countries in Europe.

@HannaYeah We definitely live in a higher cost of living area (one of the country’s top 10 highest states for property taxes) and my cost of living is definitely much higher here than in the large city I moved from in the UK. Driving is cheaper, but I hate having to have a car! I exclusively used public transport in the UK (by choice) but it’s non-existent where we are now.

Both kids got excellent educations. DS is now in his second year at uni and DD was accepted by several very prestigious universities and has just made her choice. She's supposed to start in the fall, but it's unclear at this point if she'll actually be on campus.

Congrats to your DD!

Also, in regards to public education I have serious concerns! We do live in a red state, so I recognise that our experience is not everyone’s but some things really bother me. Abstinence-only sex ed, history is VERY biased, and very little is taught in terms of world history, world geography and comparative religions.

IncorrigibleTitmouse

IMO one of the worst things about the US educational system is that the quality varies so much by area, even within the same state. It’s extremely unfair. Our tax dollars from each area fund that area’s schools. So of course that means a wealthy area has much higher quality of building, equipment, etc. (I’m not going to say that means the teachers are not as qualified because great teachers are everywhere. But they are likely to be under compensated.)

This leads to increased racial inequality in education, also.

I’d like to see school spend distributed equally to all schools within each state.

Property taxes do very greatly from state-to-state and location within the states. In my county, the taxes on a $300,000 house would be about $2,700 per year. I'm also lucky to live in an outstanding school district.

In my state, we have no state income tax. Much of the state revenue comes from sales tax (heavy tourist industry).

In other nerdy news I’ve done some calculating. I keep so much more of my income in the US than I would in the UK after income taxes.

I can factor in my US property tax and pretend like UK council tax does not even exist and still come out way ahead.

I also know that my industry pays much more in the US than the same work does in the UK.

This is just interesting, really. It’s not at all evidence that it’s better to live in the US. Because the income inequality in the US is so bad.

I didn’t know until I read this thread about people having their water shut off even now. Never thought about how truly insane it is that this is possible. I’d be glad to pay more in taxes to guarantee every home has running water.

Fascinating! You inspired me @HannaYeah so I just worked out mine too, it would be about the same but I’d definitely be in a smaller house! Balanced with the fact my last UK job gave me 35 days annual leave plus public holidays I think I would still be better off there. Our health insurance is over $650 a month and we still have $50 copays for most things.... 😫

@SenecaFallsRedux Apparently we’d definitely be better off even in another state! We’re in a high growth area just outside a major city so I think the taxes are high to pay for all the infrastructure. Still, far too much!

The US is a very rich country in that it has it's own supply of gas and oil. And coal.
Apart from Russia and Saudi I'm not sure any other country is in this situation. Then over the centuries it also has its own large demographic to buy the goods being cheaply made. Hence a booming economy, with spare money to fight wars.

It has also had the space to have a constant stream of immigrants who often take on the less desirable jobs and do them for v low wages. Europe boomed in teh 19thC but didn't have the cheap fuel to continue that into the 20thC - happy to be corrected. just my views as to why the US is so wealthy.

The USA is the world's only big rich country. The bigger countries are poorer and thr richer ones are smaller. Wealth inequality is relatively high for a developed economy.

The stat I like is the comparison with France. The French are 20% poorer than the USA per capita, but work 20% fewer hours.

I think the French have it right.

The French also have plenty of problems though. They have poverty, homelessness, drug abuse, etc. I have a friend in France working in this field.

Culturally, I don’t think most people in the US would trade their lives for the French one, though working less sounds nice. It’s definitely not for me.

They have poverty, homelessness, drug abuse, etc

Just like most countries then.

Apparently we’d definitely be better off even in another state! We’re in a high growth area just outside a major city so I think the taxes are high to pay for all the infrastructure. Still, far too much!

You'd be better off in another job too. DH gets 25 days a year, and in my last job I was on 28, progressing to 33 in a couple more years.

I get 20 days paid time off plus about a dozen holidays, and my birthday.

In France, everyone gets a minimum of 36 days a year paid holiday. In the USA, that number is nil.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country

Wow

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, 77% of private employers offer paid vacation to their employees; full-time employees earn on average 10 vacation days after one year of service.[184]

Similarly, 77% of private employers give their employees paid time off during public holidays, on average 8 holidays per year.[184][185] Some employers offer no vacation at all.[186]

The average number of paid vacation days offered by private employers is 10 days after 1 year of service, 14 days after 5 years, 17 days after 10 years, and 20 days after 20 years.

Apparently British children aren't even learning their own history??? I've become more and more aware of this from reading Mumsnet, and it certainly explains the attitudes of certain posters. Many people are absolutely lovely and have a sophisticated sense of perspective about themselves and the world, but some undereducated provincials are sad evidence of an outdated educational system that has done by them.

www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-london-51445860/should-the-history-of-the-british-empire-be-taught-in-schools