to think we really are 2 completely different cultures - the USA and the UK - just looking at the 'rebellion' taking place

[chomalungma]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8228769/Bleak-figures-China-US-economic-hit-virus.html

I know it's only some Americans. I know that it's a massive country with many many more people than the UK

But these scenes are astounding. People flocking to beaches. Protesting about lockdown.
Protesting with guns about lockdown

You just can't imagine these scenes in the UK at the moment.
Especially not the Ohio Zombie picture

It just amazes me - sometimes you think we are very similar to the USA, and then many times, you realise we are completely different.

@Oliviasmumsarmy....I don't think more people will be able or choose to work for home. I think the pandemic is showing all the issues with just the technology and not to mention the intrusion on the home life

Is this normal for either the U.K. or the USA?

To halt all immigration? Does anyone here know if this is normal for any countries?

I find the Americans quite frightening. And have always thought they were very different from us.

Of course some of them are highly intelligent. But many seem dim, religious, patriotic, as their base core.

Saying that, whilst we are all of reasonable intellect on MN, you only have to recall videos of joe public and why he voted Brexit, to remind ourselves that the British are also, some of them, thick as shit.

As a nurse I'm questioning the numbers and I worked in the hot spot and was just released from the hospital and still questioning the numbers. Not the infection rate but the death rate. We had a 94 yo man from the Halifax county nursing home come in because he tested positive with Covid. No symptoms just positive.2 weeks before he came in he was diagnosed with Stage 4 Inoperable Prostate Cancer and was terminal placed on Hospice Care. He died the day after he tested positive. His death was labeled Covid

Leaannb This is so on-brand for you! However, all you’re doing is perpetuating a ridiculous conspiracy theory. If this person actually existed, it’s likely the coronavirus COMPOUNDED his aggressive cancer, eg. made it exponentially worse. If he hadn’t caught the virus, he may have lived longer - even with the cancer. Also, he was apparently 94.

I think that many in the UK fail to understand the importance to US citizens of the constitution. They hold it as sacredly as most in the UK hold the NHS and messing with it is just as controversial.
Anything that undermines the constitution- including preventing the right to protest, to hold government to account- is seen as threatening to the very foundation of the country. Does that mean people do and say dumb ass counter intuitive things? Yes, it does.

@judemom we’ve not stopped flights and civil servants are still working so presumably immigration is still going ahead

There is a twisted irony in all this and a hard lesson on why treating a single piece of writing such as the constitution (or the Bible!) without context or introspection is dangerous. Individual freedom is a complicated concept. It's not "I can do what I want in all situations".
The irony for me is that John Locke, one of the key philosophers whose ideas influenced the founding fathers on the concept of liberty, also believed the human mind made decisions on empirical evidence, and when faced with that evidence, would throw "into the fire" anything that went against it. I think these people disprove his theory sadly.

Because of some misplaced sense of What Is British, we didn't go into lockdown quickly enough.
Because of some ridiculous idea of being against working with our neighbours, we aren't cooperating with the EU on purchasing PE.
Because of some fantasy notion, we are planning to reject requesting an extension to the transition and will crash out on No Deal at the end of this year. While all this is going on.
Slavishly adhering to a bit of paper is not unique to the US.

@HannaYeah

he people that I know in the UK that are not working are getting paid 90% of their normal pay

The Government in the UK are paying 80% of the pay of people who have been furloughed (up to a cerain level of income)

Same for self employed people - again, up to a certain degree of income

Gig economy workers, zero hour contracts - I am not sure about that.

For some people in this situation, that is a loss of a lot of money - especially when they live payday to payday and when they have no savings.

I can see why some of them would protest. Especially when things become tight money wise and this thing drags on.

But the key message here is the NHS. Stay home, save lives, protect the NHS.

And the NHS is very important in this country - so there would be a lot of outcry over any protests.

But as this situation, drags on....who knows.

@TheClaws I have many friends who are nurses.

They also told me that they have seen people with stage 4 terminal cancer dying, and that the deaths have been recorded as Coronavirus.

Annamaria14 Sigh. This isn’t hard. Underlying conditions will always -always! - make surviving such a virus more difficult.

So, in other words, if I had end-stage cancer and coronavirus and died, then my death would be recorded as from coronavirus with the co-morbidity of the cancer.

There are many reasons behind the US protests , many of them bad, ie freedom of liberties etc. A piece on Radio 4 this morning added another dimension that the welfare to pick up people and small businesses is not there and will not happen, while the big corporations are fine. There is massive deprivation in America

*Is this normal for either the U.K. or the USA?

To halt all immigration? Does anyone here know if this is normal for any countries?*

Australia closed its borders a while ago. You can still come back if you live here but you need to be in enforced quarantine for 2 weeks (not leaving a hotel room at all).

Draconian but also very effective. We’ve had about 70 deaths in total.

@TheClaws it is NURSES who have raised their suspicions about Coronavirus being recorded incorrectly with me.

Surely, they should know how deaths should be recorded.

I think that many in the UK fail to understand the importance to US citizens of the constitution. They hold it as sacredly as most in the UK hold the NHS and messing with it is just as controversial

Absolutely spot on. I often wish we in the UK had a written constitution too, and am always impressed by the knowledge many Americans have of theirs - and I don't just mean some reference to "taking the fifth" they've heard on some cop show

There are many reasons behind the US protests , many of them bad, ie freedom of liberties etc

Allied to the above, I can't begin to express how disturbing it is to see freedom and liberty described as "bad". It's true they have to exist within a democratically agreed framework rather than being absolutes, but bad in themselves? I sometimes wonder just what sort of society some want to live in ...

AnnaMaria14 why would NURSES (many of them) raise their suspicions with - you? Are you a journalist? An epidemiologist?

I think that many in the UK fail to understand the importance to US citizens of the constitution. They hold it as sacredly as most in the UK hold the NHS and messing with it is just as controversial

I think recent events have shown there is some weaknesses in the love for the constitution, especially on the right. Instead, I think for many it is used as a weapon to justify one's existing views. I think the behaviour of the current president shows that people who spent years claiming to love the constitution, the freedom of speech, that Presidents shouldn't benefit financially from their position, etc, suddenly find it less important.

I do think it's a pertinent point that people who are already ill will die with Covid19 and be recorded as died of Covid19.
When we're looking at death rates of common causes in future years are we really going to think that we magically had an impact on all those patients with cancer, COPD, heart failure, kidney disease etc as the death rates were dramatically reduced for 2020?

@TheClaws Nursing is a very popular career. I am sure that everyone knows loads of nurses.

I am not not a nurse, but I did a science degree in a University, that had three different nursing degree courses. I still have loads of nursing friends from those days.

I don’t think there is anything fundamentally wrong with keeping with the Constitution but it has to be balanced with some form of common sense.

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should if it puts you or your loved ones in danger.

It reminds me of being in a coastal town on the west coast and we went to go down on to the beach (small cove surrounded by rocks)

On the beach were very very large sea lions/walrus type animals. About 15 of them.
No one was going down on the beach but we were stood watching them from a safe distance.
In walks a family from Texas (there car was marked Texas so I presumed that was where they were from.)
The mother stayed off the beach but when the beach warden tried to stop the father taking his young children down to the beach he announced he was an American and this was an American beach so no one was going to stop him going on the beach.

They got so close to these animals. One swift flap of their flippers could have killed his children and left him with broken bones.

The mother ended up quite agitated and was shouting for him to get back with the children as everyone was whispering “idiot” and worse under their breath.

I don’t believe the American’s are stupid but I do believe there are a number who could qualify for a Darwin Award if people didn’t rescue them or pull them back from situations.

@BlackKite , the constitution will bite Trump on the arse in the end. Which means adherence to it cuts both ways.

What I don't understand about the constitution is - why are people sticking rigidly to something that was written hundreds of years ago.

Countries develop and move forward!

Annamaria14 I honestly doubt you completed a science degree if you can’t seem to grasp the simple concept that people with chronic underlying disease can die of COVID - and have recorded on their death certificate.

Also please stop @ me - it’s not necessary.

Because it for the most part works. What else do you suggest.