to think we really are 2 completely different cultures - the USA and the UK - just looking at the 'rebellion' taking place

[chomalungma]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8228769/Bleak-figures-China-US-economic-hit-virus.html

I know it's only some Americans. I know that it's a massive country with many many more people than the UK

But these scenes are astounding. People flocking to beaches. Protesting about lockdown.
Protesting with guns about lockdown

You just can't imagine these scenes in the UK at the moment.
Especially not the Ohio Zombie picture

It just amazes me - sometimes you think we are very similar to the USA, and then many times, you realise we are completely different.

Clearly Americans are dying like flies because we're a bunch of thick, ignorant barbarians

I would never, ever, say that. Some of the most intelligent, insightful, empathic friends I have are American. And some of the loveliest folk I've ever met, were American.

But the ones I've been talking to are pretty bloody concerned about how things have been done and the way things are going. Just like over here, there's some very pointy questions being asked over here about how things have been done and the way things are going.

No, I don't think that is a ridiculous question. If you wish to knowingly take a risk, then why shouldn't you be asked to wear the responsibility for the consequence of the risk you were prepared to demonstrate for, and risk the members of your household for?

I was a fire warden for a skyscraper. I had a dick of a dude who wouldn't evacuate in the event of a fire alarm. I got him to sign a waiver saying that I and the company would be in no way liable for him losing his arrogant life if he went up in flames in the building. It focused his mind to the point where he suddenly got compliant about evacuation in the event of an alarm.

@chomalungma

Then I’m afraid I completely misunderstood the point of this thread.

You wrote;
“to think we really are 2 completely different cultures - the USA and the UK - just looking at the 'rebellion' taking place”

As if this “rebellion” based on the behavior of a handful out of millions is indicative of anything at all.

How would you like it if someone suggested that the random acid attacks in UK are somehow part of your culture there and the rest of the world should base their opinion of your culture on their prevalence. That would be ridiculous and wretched.

@mbosnz...Then why hasn't the NHS sent out waivers to smokers? They at least have the ability to do that. Everybody in the world knows that the US does not have Universal Healthcare. Why on earth would people be denied a service that they are paying out the ying yang for? Thats the ridiculous part of the question. They are already taking the risk.

Yes, I'm aware US doesn't have universal healthcare. We're not talking about smokers. We're talking about a global pandemic, where the only effective way thus far to contain it to a point where the healthcare in place can effectively treat it (well, to be fair, in some places, in the US, as in so much of the world, they no longer have capacity to effectively treat it, they're on their bloody knees, the poor sods), is by what is commonly termed lockdown. It doesn't matter how much they are paying or not.

If they are not prepared to take the pain of the only possible effective way of mitigation thus far, either for themselves or their community or society, should they be treated if they then contract the disease, having refused to be a part of the possible solution, or to protect themselves and their family? Or can they gallantly take the fall? Given that they think the effect of lockdown is worse than lockdown itself?

How would you like it if someone suggested that the random acid attacks in UK are somehow part of your culture there and the rest of the world should base their opinion of your culture on their prevalence. That would be ridiculous and wretched

Acid attacks are not unique to the UK.

Who knows why they don't seem as prevalent in the USA?

But there are cultural differences between the UK and the USA - which have been discussed here - the defending of freedoms is one such thing.

We are a much smaller nation - 1/6 the size - yet we haven't really seen any protests here over the lockdown from even a few people.

It's been an interesting discussion - do you think it's interesting to see how some attitudes towards things are very different between the 2 countries, despite our similarities? And of course, some attitudes are very similar (again in general)

All I hope is that every country, every where, all over the world, suffers as little death, turmoil, and economic disaster as is possible in the current situation.

Because we're all interconnected. Like it or not, in this situation, in this time, we're all going to suffer. If we all suffer as little as possible, we'll all suffer the least.

He aha te mei a nui o te ao. He tangata, he tangata, he tangata.

Or in English.

What is the most important thing in the world. The people, the people, the people.

I feel very sorry for people who are out in a position where without work they will lose healthcare, in this situation.

@mbosnz

Part of the issue here in the US is that we can go to Walmart and buy anything they sell including furniture.
We can go to Lowe’s and buy flowers. Because they both sell essential items.

We cannot go to a small private nursery or furniture store and buy anything. Though it’s not really any less safe to do so. So huge corporate stores are making bit bucks while small private ones will fail very soon.

And frankly from what I saw, the protest going on isn’t less safe than going to Lowe’s either. They are outside and keeping social distance. The people are probably more likely to catch it at Lowe’s or Walmart where the aisles are less than 6 feet wide than on the steps of their State Capitol.

So stupid as their protest might be to me, I personally don’t particularly see what they are doing to be any riskier than other sanctioned activities here.

@HannaYeah

Speaking of acid attacks - it looks like it's much harder to get concentrated sulfuric acid in the USA as it's more heavily regulated. You can use it to make drugs.

So that could be a reason for less acid attacks.

@mbosnz....Let me try one more time to be a bit clearer for you....Why should people be denied a service that they pay for? Why would private insurance company refuse to cover a patient when they make thousands off that person? Our hospitals are private not state runned

These people are not protesting because ots fun. They are protesting because they are in danger. They are losing everything. They are losing their ability to eat,their home,their utilities,their vehicles. Getting a virus is nothing to these people if they are sleeping on the streets and starving to death. I am very comfortable with money. I own 4 houses. Two of which are in the UK and 2 in the States. Even I can understand the position these people are in. Quarantine will end. It has to. However the issues from Quarantine will be extremely long lasting. By the time Quarantine is over and people are allowed to work they will no longer have the ability to work.Its a scary time for them and they need help. Protesting gives them that voice. Should they be following social distancing? Absolutely but I can definitely understand why they feel the need to break it

@HannahYeah....I can do all of that

That's not unique to the USA Leannab. Everyone, everywhere, all over the world, are facing those kinds of issues, risks, and threats.

As a matter of interest, what about those (many) Americans, who cannot afford, or who are denied private health care?

And yes, it's a bit like how insurance companies can write (or rewrite!) the policy to exclude certain scenarios. How about them writing (or rewriting) the policy to exclude those who wish to refuse to comply with the scenario that is most likely to ensure they do not require expensive treatment or care? It could be very material as to whether the insurance company could avoid having to honor the claim as to whether they complied with lock down, or decided to extend the middle finger.

@chomalungma....Its used to make Crystal Meth

@msbonz......Another myth about American Healthcare....Most US hospitals are public. Some are religious and for the superwealthy we have private hospitals. Public hospitals cannot refuse treatment for lack of money or insurance. They have no choice but to treat them. No one said they won't get a huge bill at the end of treatment forcing them into bankruptcy.Catholic hospitals will do almost everything. The only thing they absolutely refuse to do is perform abortions and birth control. Some Catholic hospitals will provide condoms. Private hospitals will do anything as long as you have the cash. Private insurance companies are not going to force themselves in bankruptcy. That's capitalisim

@chomalungma

I’m not sure the reason it happens more in the UK than in other countries would matter to someone simply trying to use that as a bludgeon to smear a whole culture.

In fact, I think someone looking for ways to negatively judge another country would add “Doesn’t bother to regulate the use of highly dangerous chemicals commonly used to attack people in the streets.” to the list of negatives.

That is, if they were just looking to judge rather than to understand and appreciate the differences.

No one said they won't get a huge bill at the end of treatment forcing them into bankruptcy

And that's okay with you?

Okay. As you said, that's capitalism.

What I'm saying, is also capitalism. You want to take the risk, you bear the consequences. You waiver any right to treatment for the disease that you felt was preferable to the consequences you feared for lockdown. For you and yours. You bear the cost, if you can. If you can't. You die. You and yours.

Because if what the protesters are saying is 'I'm alright Jack, I've got health insurance, and I don't give a damn about those who don't, I want them doing my cooking, my cleaning, and my laundry' and this lockdown is preventing that, then I think they should at the very least share the risk.

That is, if they were just looking to judge rather than to understand and appreciate the differences

It's a good thing then that contributors to this thread have helped other people understand some of the reasons for the differences and have given some good books to read on the subject.

@Leeannb

I think you are in a state that’s a few weeks behind mine with respect to the virus. I’ve been watching the numbers there and am amazed at the lower rate of death.

I’m in a State bordering NY. Our gov shut down all non-essential businesses long before your State even had 10 deaths. He first shut down a whole county as soon as there were a handful of people hospitalized, then later a few more counties, seemed very purposefully gradual and I applaud how it was handled. I thought all hell would break loose when they shut down the state run liquor stores, but instead people just stocked up the day it was announced.

I think when the Gov in Michigan roped off part of Walmart recently people everywhere decided that was a step too far.

@Mbosnz.....Of course I'm not ok with that. But thats how it is. Americans are not denied medical care. That was my point. The US goverment does not have the safeguards other countries have. The UK homeowners were offered a mortgage holiday. Thats across the board, correct? At least that's what the letter from Barclay's told me. No such thing here. Only federal backed mortgages are given a holiday here. So evictions have been halted but everything is due as soon as Quarantine ends. Renters will still owe their back rent as soon the courts open back up. Car loans and Car insurance still due. Banks are still repossessing. Utilities are getting shut off during the pandemic. Someone on this thread posted a link about Detroit shutting off water to himes. Americans do not have those basic protections right now when they need it the most. I am not going to condemn hard working Americans for breaking ridiculous quarantine rules when these protests are the only way for their voices to be heard.

@leeannb

Very good points all. Thank you.

@HannahYeah....We are about a week and a half behind you guys. I seriously wouldn't trust those numbers. As a nurse I'm questioning the numbers and I worked in the hot spot and was just released from the hospital and still questioning the numbers. Not the infection rate but the death rate. We had a 94 yo man from the Halifax county nursing home come in because he tested positive with Covid. No symptoms just positive.2 weeks before he came in he was diagnosed with Stage 4 Inoperable Prostate Cancer and was terminal placed on Hospice Care. He died the day after he tested positive. His death was labeled Covid and never showed a symptom. Cause of Death Covid but not the termunal stage 4 incredibly aggressive cancer. My own case of Covid. They will be reporting my case for my home county. I haven't been home in weeks. I left home the last week of March and haven't been back since. What sense does that make

@HannahYeah....No Problem. Do you understand why I'm not going to deamonize my hair dresser when she drives to Raleigh tomorrow to protest? Because the only thing I'm going to do is hand her a mask and a box of gloves and wish her well

@leeannb

I do understand and agree. I respect people who are sincerely, respectfully protesting anything regardless of my own opinion. I can’t say I understand it because I don’t imagine it ever actually accomplishes anything at all but it doesn’t bother me at all.

I’m a huge proponent of people speaking their mind, respectfully engaging in thoughtful dialogue with people with whom they don’t agree.

I roll my eyes at over-organized protests with obvious false actors with hidden agendas. (The main guy at the helm of the one here today is from another state. He needs to go home, in my opinion.)

@chomalungma

The people that I know in the UK that are not working are getting paid 90% of their normal pay. (Company is topping up the difference). They are home taking care of their children. Glad to have the ability to focus on their families during this very difficult time. Why would they protest?

*Okay. Well I think more people will choose to work from home. So this will start to give people more freedom in their own lives.

I also think that people will start to question the government and their decisions more.

I think that people will come into their own power morw*

How can people working from home give people more freedom
They will still be working 9-5 or is working from home another way to skive off.

People have always questioned the government so no change there

I am interested how people will come into their own powers