To feel that the predictions and hopes that “work from home” is “the new normal” is setting women back in the workplace?

[Justamassivefart]

I work full time in an international company. I also have three children of primary school age. I like many others have struggled during lockdown to do childcare, home educate and continue my full time job from home and try to show that I am “busy” enough so that I do not get made redundant or be seen as surplus to requirements.

Like many other women I am also the default carer for the DC and also cook and cleaner for the household. The regular childminder is not working during the pandemic which has meant that these tasks also fall to me 24/7.

My husband does not want the children leaving the house or any childcarer coming to ours because of the infection risk.

My husband is a complete nob who does not pull his weight, so I married the wrong person and I recognise it will be different when married to an equal and I do plan to get divorced. But even then I would still have all these responsibilities as a single parent as he does not lift a finger, and works intermittently.

I put a huge amount of value in the space and freedom to wear my uniform and go to work in the morning, knowing the DC are happy at school, knowing that I am independent and pick them up at the end of the day.

So every time I am on a call or see an email from (usually a male partner with grown up kids and wives who have been domestic slaves for the sake of their husbands’ career) saying nothing will ever be the same, work from home is “the new normal,” we can “cut the overheads” of an office, my heart sinks.

If the pandemic is going to repeat and there will be repeated outbreaks and schools again will be shut and everyone again has to work from home and women again become the default carers while holding down a full time job, slowly but surely, I feel we will lose the progress we have made.

Is there a bigger picture here I am missing?

YANBU - yes it will set women back
YABU - you are not seeing the whole picture

YANBU to enjoy getting out of the house, I do too, but I guess the idea of the new Normal is for both partners to wfh. Lots of men i work with really enjoy being at home, seeing their children etc, so if the work attitude becomes more about actual work, than presenteeism, we'll all benefit.
YANBU to think that this new set up would pressure a lot of women to do part-time home-work on the fly, whilst men hole themselves up in a 'home office' doing the "important" work.
Sorry your husband is a knob though.

I can't see anyone thinking that working from home while looking after kids is a long term good idea. It's not productive.

As others have said, I think the hope will be for an increase in home working even after schools and nurseries are back to normal, so people have childcare while working.

In a way, more home working could actually help a lot of mums. Many parents have a long commute and need wraparound childcare to cover this. Working from home and eliminating the commute would save money, allow for more family time in the evenings and make pick ups and drop offs less stressful.

Individual circumstances will always differ but I think the OP's question raises issues of women's position overall.

WFH they are not so visible, (in spite of tech), they don't learn the about the organization in the same way, they don't come into to contact with such a wide range of people, situations and opportunity as when working outside. Too easy to get them to supply "their" piece of the puzzle, (whilst selling it as being for their own benefit), and keep them in their place.

The uniform that OP mentioned is a factor. I used to love putting on my office clothes, walking out of the house hands free looking the part. It gives confidence and people will always treat you differently if you look the part. That can help women.

It doesn't mean that WFH sometimes isn't good for both sexes but it would be too easy for women to be managed in a way that could indeed set them back.

@Shitsgettingcrazy well said.

Under normal circumstances people working from home are expected to have childminding arrangements in place.

I honestly don't see how everyone rushing out at 7am and not getting home until 7pm is healthy for family life.

Your husband may be selfish, but using that to say wfh is not a good idea is a bit of a leap. For many, many families and individuals it would be truly beneficial.

I think for some women it will actually help their career.... for reasons mentioned above. The flexibility it can offer you is invaluable and more men WFH and seeing what it takes to run a house with children can only be a good thing.

The problem is op you are viewing it from your position and in the current, strange situation. You can't work from home effectively while caring for children ( and facilitating home learning) and you have a husband who isn't pulling his weight.
I work from home 2/3 days a week but DS is in school and sometimes wrap around care plus my husband does his fair share.

I don't really understand your point, tbh. Currently, my DH and I are both working from home, and managing to work quite well as a team around our young kids.

Our "normal" is DH working from home every day anyway, and he would usually do the school/nursery run in the mornings, and I do pick ups on the way home from work in the evenings.

Working from home is a positive for him, it saves a couple of hours of commuting and he uses that time to stick some washing on. If the genders were reversed it would still be a good thing.

That's not to say that your current situation isn't crap. It's hard enough with a DH who does pull his weight. So I'm not having a go, but I don't really see the point you are making.

Some wfh with childcare will help women but ft wfh with no childcare will disadvantage women as Mose men don’t do wifework.

YABU

This isn't about putting women back 30 years so they know their place back home, it is about safety.

Office life will return in due course, I prefer homeworking with the option to go into the office if I need too, I hate the daily grind of sat in traffic for upto 2 hours a day, I much prefer to wake later, log on and work and get a few bits in the house knocked out like washing, shopping, dog walked instead of taking a long lunch break,

home working isn't for everyone, but either is being part of a rat race to drive into town for office working..

Don't listen to what other people think, what they prefer isn't always going to be your cup of tea,

I think it's quite shameful whenever this kind of subject comes up how many women are quick to try and blame other woman who are struggling for doing a bad job of picking a partner, or the wrong role etc rather than just acknowledging that as a class women are disproportionately disadvantaged by societal and cultural expectations.

OP I agree with the sentiment certainly. Myself and my female colleagues are all hating working from home because of the increased expectations on us, whereas the men on the team are all saying how great it is and are starting 'projects' with their spare time.

I don't know if it will set women back though , I think the childcare stuff is exceptional circumstances and that's the main issue for those of us on the team who are struggling . I think most research around women in work and WFH has shown that it would be more beneficial for women.

If I could wfh 1 or 2 days a week I could work full time. Dh already does this and if I could do it too it woukd be perfect.

Instead I have to forgo the money and be part time.

Your husband doesn’t want to do childcare. Your husband also doesn’t want them to leave the house or have alternative childcare.

I agree you need a divorce. And you also need to work out why you have allowed yourself to be trained in this way.

I presume you’re a key worker. Why can you not unilaterally decide to take them to school?

@Justamassivefart
Could not agree more

@RoomR0613 I agree with you there. We need to stop blaming women for men's failings.

OP, I do see your point. But I hope that increased flexible working should mainly be a good thing for women, especially those who would like to return to work but struggle to find a role that fits around their childcare responsibilities.

Given the amount of pollution caused by people shifting from one indoor workspace to another indoor workspace and the decrease in life expectancy that results from the unnecessary travel, I see that a shift to wfh as beneficial for everyone.

I don't think anyone thinks that having their young children under their feet all day is a productive and viable long term approach though.

People who are new to WFH home need to remember that this isn't normal. Most of us who WFH regularly do so with childcare in place. I usually love my WHF home days and they're generally incredibly productive. I'm not enjoying it at the moment as two people working at homw with a 5 year old is no fun and not as productive.

Well your partner certainly needs to step up his game as it were! For everyone saying you married a complete knob ,presumably he wasnt showing his true colours until DC came along? I think the present situation we are in is exceptional ,and WFH is probably not going to be the new normal anyway.For many women the situation you describe is unacceptable yet the everyday as well!Most women earn less over their lives than men do ,whether we work from home or not .This should not be a problem in the 21st Century so long after womens lib and so on .

"women are disproportionately disadvantaged by societal and cultural expectations"

This can be changed by making better choices though and this does include the decision about who you choose to marry - if you make the decision to marry someone who does not see worm as equal you are perpetuating the norm. Yes it might result in making a hard choice - but it does not sound as if the OP is experiencing a positive experience with the choice she made here.

The different working models that will come out of the current situation will only provide the framework in which people can work and drive increased flexibility in some cases - if people choose to continue to run families based on out dated expectations of roles, that is still their inherent attitude at fault, not the ability to work differently

I think the opposite - more flexibility will mean more women can access more opportunities. You are very wrapped up in your own situation, with a spectacularly terrible husband and small children. Once you have childcare in place again, you will probably be able to focus on work even more if you don't need to commute as much etc

This can be changed by making better choices though

Listen to yourself.

Not everyone lives in your lovely bubble where they have the power to actively control the choices available to them let alone have the power to make good or bad choices.

Even if everyone did live in that bubble it's very difficult to have foresight as a woman in your mid 20s with a career seemingly of equal worth to your boyfriend's and a society that seems to value you (but actually values your youth and beauty and availability) just how much your life will change once you have children and society's view of your worth changes.

Yes some women manage to carry on and have it all, have wonderful husbands who equally share the domestic and mental load but the majority don't. But they aren't the ones posting on mumsnet because they are too bloody busy.

"women are disproportionately disadvantaged by societal and cultural expectations"

This can be changed by making better choices though

If only it were that simple.......

You’re unreasonable to talk about ‘women’ when you mean ‘mothers’.

Sounds great to me. I spent £700 a month commuting to work. I already did work from home 1 day a week, but after this I'm working home 2 weeks a month, which will save me £350 a month. But my dh isn't a twat (actually, he does the bulk of the school runs and homework and dinners while I work away so much) and he'll still carry the weight of parenting and running a house equally - particularly as he already wfh full-time. But if your dh is a jerk sounds like you'd be better off out of there and plan your wfh days on the days he has the children.

Don't know if this link works but you're right. I'd be amazed if women aren't still doing more in their homes, I feel absolutely like this situation has thrown me straight back into the domestic drudge I've worked so hard to escape and my husband has picked up a bit of slack but not very much. I wouldn't mix home working up with that though, many women haven't been trusted to work from home to the same degree as men (less likely to be a manager or senior job) and it is a genuine opportunity for everyone to mix working with childcare responsibilities by cutting out the commute, being able to drop off the kids etc. I worked from home when my kids were newborns to school age and it enabled me to keep my skills and earn more than a traditional job because of the flexibility. I hope when this is over I can work from home a day a week and my husband is the same. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/17/lockdown-women-working-mothers-coronavirus-home-working?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Samsung_Internet

Your problem is not in any way whatsoever to do with working from home OP.