Dear Sirs

[Suzanne12]

Is this an acceptable way to start an email that will be received by either a man or a woman? Would you say something if a colleague used this term to send an email to a generic inbox?

Yabu - it's fine
Yanbu - it's not acceptable anymore

The use of “Sirs” in writing company-to-company I’ve always assumed is addressing the management or governing Board. The assumption is clearly that the Board is made up of men. That’s why it’s sexist. You wouldn’t refer to a company as “he” would you eg “when the firm was floated on the stock market he was worth x” so it has to refer to people.

I consider "Dear Sirs" to be a plural and very formal address for all genders. It is part of the English language. "Dear Sir/Madam" is a formal singular address.

This is so archaic it makes me laugh. Not seen that in years.

second word is a voiceless alveolar sibilant

Madam is not sibilant. If you prefer hissing sounds? You have niche tastes. Can you explain what you mean by 'any gender?' As to why many of us object to the use of sir, that's because as a distinct sex we don't wish to be subsumed under an inaccurate linguistic umbrella.

Good idea Hopeless — any suggestions?

I think people have leapt on you here because women have struggled for decades to avoid being glossed over by male terms (sirs, manpower, man’s greatest achievement etc) so the idea of adopting the male term as one to include everyone seems totally backwards!!

address for all genders

Where has this bizarre phrase come from? There are two sexes FG, gender is irrelevant.

FGS

StVincent Thank you for moving the conversation along…

Coming up with an alternative term is difficult. "Dear You" doesn't have quite the same ring…

This reminds me of all those threads where women are furious at being referred to as eg “Mrs Steve O’Connell” and people pop in helpfully to tell them “it’s a polite form of address”. Well it’s not is it, if people on the receiving end think it’s bloody rude.

Presumably formal forms of address aren’t meant to antagonise and insult the people being addressed. Dear Sirs needs to go in the bin.

Madam is not sibilant.

Sssssir is ssssssibilant.

On reflection, aren't all of us in fact being archaic and sexist by insisting that males and females should be addressed separately?

Dear Sirs should become the generic greeting to include humans of any gender.

Why don't we use Dear Madams instead? Oh, I know, the men won't like it. So you propose we ignore all the women instead.

Dear Sir/Madam is sufficient.

If a college, pull them up on it! If a customer, maybe not.

My pet hate is when people start their emails with

"Gentlemen,"

Boils my piss. (If I've received it I was clearly copied in and I'm a woman!)

I once worked for a large company where every job application that arrived with 'Dear Sirs' was immediately binned. It was considered sexist then, and this was a couple of decades ago.

gender is irrelevant

How so, when how people choose to be addressed is often determined by gender, rather than sex?

And on a related note, how is one supposed to pronounce "Mx"? ("Mix"? So Dear Mix Smith?)

Dear Board of Directors?

Dear Management?

Dear All?

Or scrap the “dear” and just put eg “Google Board of Directors”, “Lloyd’s Legal Team”

Okay. I've learned something new today.

It sounds as though the person receiving the email addressed this way, needs to investigate the legal company's policy rather than berate the sender, then.

The plural of madam is mesdames. Unless you are taking about people that run brothels.

You beat me to exactly this comment!

I consider "Dear Sirs" to be a plural and very formal address for all genders. It is part of the English language. "Dear Sir/Madam" is a formal singular address.

• and this, yes.

You wouldn't have liked being around when we typically addressed letters to other firms of solicitors "Messrs X and Y".

The phrase used was "The masculine connotes the feminine" and I really can't get worked up about that. Though I can't bear it when someone (often a woman) addresses a whole group of women as "You guys". Hideous (not particularly because of the sex/gender issue; just hideous).

As for "Ms" - not in my name please. Use it for yourself if you must (though I won't think the better of you for it) but leave me my preference.

Why don't we use Dear Madams instead?

Because most of us don't run brothels (at least not as far as I know!)

Mesdames is the plural you are looking for.

koshkatt As an English teacher you should be teaching the current correct usage, and explaining that gender-neutral phrasing is still considered informal.

I've received this at work - it's always letters from lawyers. It seems very sexist and outdated and I think says something about the legal profession.

How so, when how people choose to be addressed is often determined by gender, rather than sex?

Can you give me an example of this oft occurring phenomenon?

Think you’ve got the wrong idea there Hopeless. Any English teacher worth the name would be teaching that language changes according to usage and reflects the society we live in. “Correct” language changes because people want it changed, it’s not like the dictionary was handed down from God.

It is not that long since formal letters were always the method of communication. Since it is now email, which can be very very informal, there is a distinct lack of etiquette when addressing someone you dont know. It isnt helpful for people to call the old addresses archaic when there is little suitable alternatives. Yes we should all keep up with the times, but also realise some beautiful skills are being lost, like handwriting and lovely letters, both forml and informal. We are also rapidly losing telephone conversation as an art and we duck it by texting. Maybe dont throw out the baby with the bathwater?

Dear Sirs usually means your are addressing a company not an individual at the company.
Companies have no gender or sexuality.