Children carers shouldn’t be allowed

[NameChangeInfinite]

There was a powerful segment in Ch4 news about an 11 year old girl who is the carer of her mother, who suffers from Chronic fatigue syndrome, and 7 year old autistic brother.

The poor poor girl. This is no life for a child.

@Beijingbikini that's my point. People like me, who did a normal level of teen chores to help out in a happy family, are now being classed as 'young carers' under the official definition. This just muddied the waters for teachers, social workers and people allocating funds (or not). If a council is told they have 5000 child carers, they will see it as an unaffordable group to assist. If that 5000 was whittled down to the say, 500, who are what we would actually understand as carers they might be more inclined to do something as it would seem more achievable.

I have always said this! I know it's an unpopular opinion but the way people talk about and normalise "young carers" has always got my back up. My ex sister in law used to force her daughter to be her carer as she had chron's disease and then was surprised when she rebelled as a teenager. People often say elderly parents shouldn't expect their kids to care for them so why should young kids miss out on childhood, work unpaid and be forced to grow up too quickly? It should be banned IMO. If you're unable to look after your children don't have them, either pay for carers or apply for council paid via your GP.

My DS was my DH's main carer until he died, but only for just over a year and DS was nearly 17 when he started. We weren't eligible for any government support other than carer's allowance for DS, as I work full time and earn too much for any benefits, but DH had to give up work due to his diagnosis. DS being there allowed me to continue working and paying the bills, DS finished his A Levels and went onto universal credit with the carer element (he kept all of the money) so there would always be someone at home. It isn't what I would have wanted for him but he was content to do it and is now glad that he spent that time with his dad. Admittedly in the early months, there was little personal care needed as DH was very capable, he just needed help with shopping, tying his laces, that sort of thing as he had a lung removed. And throughout chemo he needed someone to make him tea, be around in case he collapsed, but he could self care right up until a month or so before he died, at which point I took leave of absence from work.

Young carers are sometimes the only option. Would I have been happy for DS to give up school to be there - no, I would have taken a demotion and we would have struggled financially but managed somehow. It worked for us but the care element was light in our case. Primary school children with responsibility for their parent and sibling is heartbreaking, but it can be the only solution. It is desperately sad.

I think the difference is that an adult child can consent to becoming a carer for a parent, a child carer can consent to it anymore than they can consent to going out to work full time.

I work for a charity that supports young carers. The problem is that to take those children out of a caring role will often also mean separating the family and/or putting any children involved into the care system. It’s a tough choice to make as either option can damage a child. As a psychotherapist my opinion is that it will normally be better for a child to remain in a loving home, even with age inappropriate responsibilities, than in care but obviously there are also situations where that is not the case.

Also, not everyone who relies on a young carer is a feckless individual who had children they knew they couldn’t care for. Some people develop debilitating conditions, some conditions deteriorate over time. In a lot of cases a partner who had previously had care responsibilities will leave the disabled partner effectively abandoning them and the children and forcing their ex to make a choice between relying on the DC or losing them.

There is a lot of shame and guilt around this issue, both for the needy parent and for the children, meaning families are often reluctant to speak up and ask for help.

Surely it is cheaper to pay for adult carers to help the disabled parent(s) and leave the child(ren) at home rather than taking them into care and funding that?
I cannot see how the only alternative is taking children into care?
Surely that is the most expensive option?

If parents refuse the help, then take the children into care. I would not leave a 4 year old looking after a baby. No way.

I actually voted YABU because of the word 'allowed'. Do you really think someone is 'allowing' those children to become carers? Do you think that child has been allowed by his mum to become a carer? or maybe his dad (who could have become the RP but havent)...

What is absolutely unacceptable is to see a parent not stepping up to support their child. The parent who is ill wont be ble to do a lot about it. There is simply no help available to an adequate level.
But the NRP? why are we noy getting up in arms when they dont step up and take care of the child? Oh yes. They are usually the fathers and they can get away with it wo a se cond thought.

@pengymum, I have yet to meet some one with ME/fibro etc... who is refusing help. What I have seen a lot is people getting minimum help and needing family members to step in (eg someone to come and cook dinner, do the shopping etc....) because there is no help.

And yes, any woman that is aware she has health problems that prevent her looking after a child and then chooses to have more is a very selfish individual.

ME is an illness that you can recover from. Many people have children when they have ME and recover to live a normal life. You might have had ME as a teen, recover, get prgnant and then have a massive dip that you dont recover from. In that respect, its very different than having MS or other chronic illnesses. It can be quite unpredictable in that respect.
Plus of course, many people parent well with ME.

I very much echo @toohardforme’s point.

There does need to be a lot more understanding and willingness to help , but I can’t see that increasing any time soon sadly , and God only knows how you cope with being a young carer and this nightmare at the same time. Hardly bears thinking about .

It’s not about piling more money in to the services, although it would greatly help. It is about priorities & what we all do as family, friends & neighbours. Leaving this issue to a state-run agency just tidies the unpleasant truth away, & puts these children in a position where they are more likely to cover than share what it is they need because often the child- parent bond, loyalties & stigma (I’m talking to you, Benefit Street et al) are stronger than any offer or programme run by school or social services.

Many posters on this thread have been child carers, including me. We seem to acknowledge the dynamics & impact of this experience on us from an adult perspective. As an adult, I have very sharp antenna picking up when a child moves beyond helping out in the family as they grow up to when they become under-age, overwhelmed unpaid carers.

So my questions for all of us:

Who are the child carers around you, your family, friendship group or neighbours? How are they doing during these difficult times?

I see a lot on here and other places that women with disability should never be ‘censored’ so to speak on how many kids they want, saying it’s like eugenics to say they can’t have kids etc
The argument is usually that anyone can become disabled or ill and then what can you say? And I agree with that completely. But I stand by feeling that it’s wrong for the child born into a family where it is needed as a carer. It shouldn’t be that way. And for families with money, and lots of help, it isn’t, and the kids go on to have amazing lives where their parents illness or condition is not a barrier but even a way for them to have a more fulfilling and worldly wise childhood. But it’s not the case for everyone and surely you should take the child’s needs into consideration before getting pregnant ?

@QuestionMarkNow - a PP poster said about some parents refusing help in some cases.

The funding is important. Social workers are so stretched that they don't have time to notice or follow up when the family appear to be managing. If people aren't being actually hurt or starving then they don't have the resources to do anything.

Schools might know about a family, but don't have the resources to put on extra groups for the child or check up regularly. They might have been able to refer to community youth groups or young carers in the past but they're all gone. The communities are so stretched and stressed about their own unemployment or mental health that they can't provide the support. And anyway, there isn't anywhere to go.

Punitive systems mean that people put off applying for help. It's too stressful when you're on the edge anyway and someone will tell you off for being a scrounger. Scare stories about ss taking kids off parents and generally being unhelpful don't help.

As a society, we've fallen for this shit. How many times on here have I seen comments about undeserving people getting benefits. She shouldn't have had a baby. Class warfare. She should be grateful for a job, benefit, etc. Loads of people have extremely difficult lives that look like nothing from the outside. Other people judge them and vote for Johnson and then think it's dreadful when a child is a carer.

Because we've had too many cuts the social care isn't there for the disabled or the child carers.
The services that help a person stay more independent are cut.
Adaptions to homes have long waiting lists.
The mental health support for the children isn't there unless they become suicidal. School budgets have been cut so school staff don't have the time to check in with the vulnerable.
The cuts to the NHS, education, ss, home care, behefits system will all have had a disproportionate affect on the disabled and their carers.

@GrumpyHoonMain That is appalling, and this is on your brother, not his wife.. Why? Whys it not on the wife, allowing a 4 year old to care for a 1 year old? If she needs carers for her/support with parenting it's equally 'on her' unless the DH is refusing this level of support, then that's a whole other matter!

I don't get how any rational person considers letting a 4 year old look after a 1 year old. It's batshit.

@TitianaTitsling There was no suggestion in the original post that the mum has refused carers. My point is that right now, there clearly is not another carer in the house, and the dad is walking out of the house in the morning knowingly leaving a 4 year old caring for a 1 year old. If both parents were completely able bodied, the mum was a stay at home parent and she woke up with norovirus and couldn’t care for the baby, would he go to work regardless? (I wouldn’t - I work full time and my husband is a stay at home dad). So why is this different?

Yes long waits for adaptations is criminal. I remember about 10 years ago when a friends mum became disabled. Adaptations were quickly made to her house all organised and paid for by the council. These things make a massive difference.

I didn't say there was Argyll I was responding to your 'its on your brother not her' why just on him?