Is it unreasonable for a bunch of white people to debate rationale for higher proportion of BAME people dying from Covid-19?

[TGear]

I am part of a professional group on Facebook. A member has asked why people from BAME communities have a higher number of covid-19 related deaths. It's now just a bunch of white people trying to work this out. Is this totally inappropriate? I want to be sensitive to other people and acknowledge that it's not something I can relate to on a personal level, but equally I feel everyone should be asking the answer to this to support those that are disproportionately affected.

I get really hacked off with the shoddy reporting of headline stats - a couple of days ago, it was "US has the highest number of Corona Virus deaths" - well, yes, but in relation to the population?
Population five times greater than UK, five and a half times Italy...

Yes, but also skewed by the fact that half the deaths are in New York.

Firstly I think your OP is ridiculous and you are purposefully stirring.

Secondly for the purposes of research what is being defined as 'BAME' in this instance? Ok 'Black' may be (relatively) straightforward, the minority ethnic starts to become complicated and is more open to interpretation. Is this any group with an ethnicity other than white british? Or white Irish etc? Many 'white' people who are British may count themselves as minority ethnic assuming 'white' is the default. I have friends of Greek Cypriot and columbian heritage both born here who class themselves as minority ethnic but to all intents and purposes appear white and switch between what they tick on those ethnicity polling forms. Some Jewish people may count themselves as minority ethnic. Whom is included in these figures? Or are they basing on genetics? I confess I've not read any articles pertaining to it.

I suspect once you sort through the demographics properly and remove social and cultural factors and social economic status it will roughly pan out. I don't think this can possibly be done at this early stage. Certainly info related to genetic factors would take years possibly.

I see no issues with people with relevant skills debating or researching the issue regardless of what skin colour they are. Scientists from all ethnicities will be assessing the data from this pandemic for years to come.

Yes, but also skewed by the fact that half the deaths are in New York

It works both ways.

San Marino and Andorra have the highest death toll per million people

(For some reason)

@BovaryX - I totally agree with you if you are only looking at the genetic/biological predisposition that the BAME groups might have.

However, the causes might not be just biological, they can involve social, racial, economic and/or cultural aspects.

I do not think it is a trivial question to then notice that those discussing it are 'a bunch of white people'. I am not saying they should not discuss it, but there is nothing wrong with being aware of the limitations that your own experiences (or lack of) bring to the analysis in question.

@ladybee28 - I tried to say the same a page or two back, but you were much clearer!

If the situation was reversed would the term “bunch of black people” be acceptable? It’s totally irrelevant the colour of the skin.

@Lindy2, Can only a bunch of women discuss female issues like breast cancer?

Of course not. But how do you feel when you see only men discussing/billing female issues that go beyond biology, such as abortion.

Can we please have a journalist asking about this at the daily press briefing? Any journalist of any colour.

A professional group on Facebook?

An oxymoron

Why so, my job has many interest groups on Facebook discussing aspects of the job and asking others for advice. Did I miss the memo that serious discussion isn't allowed on Facebook? It's not just for the unintelligent.

@twirlycat77if the situation were reversed then white people would have been systematically disenfranchised over hundreds of years.

So it would still be an inelegant turn of phrase, but it would be understandable.

If you're going to reverse the situation you need to reverse the whole context and social narrative.

I’d like to hear from the Op again. Sometimes racism isn’t all about disliking someone because of their skin colour it’s also a defence mechanism too. DH family are from Ghana it’s took me 10 years for them to talk directly to me & make eye contact because they are scared of me (I’m white)

Racism is an issue & unless we take a step back and ask ourselves why we feel like we do we will not get past it

I suppose the biggest thing to determine is if there is anything going on or is it simply a reflection of the population dynamics.

Which then leads to the question of why that population (e.g. inner city London) is much more likely to be affected - and is there a biological reason or a socio-economic or cultural reasons - and who best is it to involve if it socio-economic and who best to involve it if is cultural or for other reasons.

You are completely right. Representation is really important here. Can't they find any BAME scientists?

But how do you feel when you see only men discussing/billing female issues that go beyond biology, such as abortion.

I have no problem with men talking about abortion. They have a right to talk about what they chose. I’m not in the business of policing conversations.

If only men were involved in advisory bodies and law making, that would be appalling. But the OP isn’t talking about that. I’m sure everyone would agree that BAME representation on such a body is critical.

The OP wants to stop discussion. That’s the problem.

@ladybee but it's not as though the discussion was created for white people only. Anyone could have had input it just happened to be that at the time OP saw it it was only white people. Presumably that means there were only a few commenters otherwise she'd have had an awful lot of profiles to go thru and check to ensure nobody was BAME. She does seem determined to find offence though so perhaps she did go through several hundred comments and check that everybody was white...

Would be useful to know how long the comment was up, how many replies it had and from how many people. Was it a few days with 400 comments from 300 white people? Or half a day with 25 comments from 3 white people?

People are spectacularly missing the point - surely?

The reason inequality of opportunity, outcome and risk of death from virus happens in the U.K. is less from overt racism and very much more from 'informal discussions' (meaning informal exclusion) - which at least one person on this thread has protested should not be policed.

I too would have liked to hear more from the OP. Particularly on why this FB group is so exclusive.

@formerchild scroll up - I hear you and I'm not being rude by not responding fully, I'm just not going to post the same thing multiple times.

which at least one person on this thread has protested should not be policed

Fgs, what are you proposing?

Monitoring the racial background and applicability of topic for every handful of people discussing something on FB?

Monitoring the racial background and applicability of topic for every handful of people discussing something on FB

Why stop at race?
Sex representation
Class background
Income
Education

Lots of factors could be affecting people and how they are affected.

Socio, economic, cultural

Surely all should be represented rather than just race.

If a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing properly

Really? Does the virus prey upon feelings and identity, or is it subject to scientific enquiry?

There should be more BAME scientists so if you are concerned your friends are racist and excluding people yes, otherwise no.

Your ethnicity and the colour of your skin is totally irrelevant in asking this question.

There is research underway looking at DNA of Covid victims to see if there are any influences affecting susceptibility

The very idea that anyone could think that scientists and medics should ignore pertinent physical facts, in order to prioritise feelings, makes me... well it makes me think OP is not bright enought to be part of the 'professional group' she's referring to and is just a befuddled bystander.

Then again, let's not forget the Rochdale police.

@LaurieMarlow - I have no problem with men discussing abortion either. I said only men, and I was referring to situations like the one in the picture.

I really do not see where you get that the OP wants to stop discussion. As a couple of PP have said, I think it was merely a reflection on that particular discussion group and whether it was appropriate/relevant/biased to draw any conclusions of such discussion.

Surely this issue needs addressing by professional bodies who know what they’re talking about, rather than ignoring it because the professionals in question happen to be a different ethnic background?