Is it unreasonable for a bunch of white people to debate rationale for higher proportion of BAME people dying from Covid-19?

[TGear]

I am part of a professional group on Facebook. A member has asked why people from BAME communities have a higher number of covid-19 related deaths. It's now just a bunch of white people trying to work this out. Is this totally inappropriate? I want to be sensitive to other people and acknowledge that it's not something I can relate to on a personal level, but equally I feel everyone should be asking the answer to this to support those that are disproportionately affected.

It's now just a bunch of white people trying to work this out

@Smileyaxolotl1

I guess that's what they are trying to figure out. Are the higher infection/death rates a result of environmental or cultural factors or could there be a biological reason or some combination of the two?

Either way I would have thought that it would be a lot more racist for Dr's and researchers to acknowledge the disproportionate rates, shrug their shoulders and ignore it. But then again I am white so what do I know?

FFS this isn't like leaving someone out of a, reading group
This is about science and trying to understand how a virus works. And to help groups disproportionately affected

A bunch of people on facebook aren't necessarily the research organisations informing SAGE and the government.

Additionally, there are very simple things that skew results - I've seen headline reports of a third of those with Corona Virus being from BAME backgrounds.
Yes, that is higher than the BAME population of the UK.
Consider where the peaks of Corona Virus are; London and the Midlands.
And the most areas ethnically diverse areas of the UK; London and the Midlands.
compounded by the fact that higher risk workers, NHS and social care, are also more ethnically diverse than the UK as a whole.

I get really hacked off with the shoddy reporting of headline stats - a couple of days ago, it was "US has the highest number of Corona Virus deaths" - well, yes, but in relation to the population?
Population five times greater than UK, five and a half times Italy...

I must admit I am truly surprised by the responses in this thread.

@Spearmintgreen - I have never been called racist, have you? Would you find it distressing and look at your own behaviour?

^^This!

Systematic and institutional racism is the cause. This isn't a surprise to any BAME. It is daily lived experience. Will still be a high proportion of white people telling us we are wrong though

We have to be careful not to fall into the trap that we refrain from helping people because we don't want to seem overbearing or like we are imposing our own culture on them. Like when the charities working in Africa didn't feel that is was appropriate to teach the local populations about contraception because "it is in their culture to get many children". Such nonsense. It was a part of Western culture before the introduction of contraception too. They essentially denied women the rigth to decide over their own bodies out of a fear of being seen as racist.

“Part of a professional group on Facebook” 🤣 so what qualifications do these professional Facebook users have? If you are talking about actual scientist working in epidemiology and virology I really don’t think the colour of your skin makes a difference to the work you do in this area. This work is based on scientific evidence though, not what Sandra on Facebook thinks.

Is the fact that more BAME people are dying really surprising when you hear that ambulances left an extremely sick black woman at home because her husband was with her?

I would be more concerned about why a "professional" group has only white members. Perhaps you could start your debate closer to home?

This needs to be discussed, researched and understood. I doubt very much that it will be entirely caused by one group of factors. There will be socioeconomic and biological factors at play here. It needs to be understood from a biological point of view so we can better understand the disease and how to treat it, and from the socioeconomic side so it will shine a light on disparities in our society and push us towards positive change. Wringing your hands over whether it should even be discussed does not help the situation and might actually cause it to be overlooked making the problem worse.

This post is a perfect example of how "a bunch of white people" make a massive contribution to racism. It's always a "bunch of white people" who feel the need to champion race issues when there are none!

If you find this inappropriate, what is your suggestion? Should every group (professional of course) on Facebook have to have an accurately proportionate representation of all nationalities/sexes/religions before any discussion can take place? And that any discussion can only be about your own characteristics? So no women can discuss erectile dysfunction. No men can discuss menopause or ovarian cancer. White people can't discuss sickle cell anaemia. We must only be allowed to discuss, challenge, research and strive to cure problems that only directly affect us incase some person on Facebook finds it inappropriate, calls us 'just a bunch of white people' and thinks we're racist. White people only care about 'white' issues, black people only care about 'black' issues, is that what you want? Or, for the collective good of the human race, the best brains in their fields get together to discuss these issues and find an answer to them as quickly as possible, without being accused of having some hidden, inappropriate agenda? I know which one I would prefer.

The more people discussing it and studying it the better. A number of my colleagues are BAME and a wonderful ex colleague has already died. All are NHS and high risk for heavy viral load. I can see what the poster, if said a bit badly, meant. Scares me a lot to think of losing any of them.

I would be more concerned about why a "professional" group has only white members. Perhaps you could start your debate closer to home?

This is the crux of the specific matter raised by the OP.

Great post from fuck

I find it a bit concerning that people on here have already decided they know why it’s disproportionately affecting BAME. There is so much we don’t understand about this disease and it’s likely to be a whole combination of factors.

That's the kind of divisive shite that builds 2-tier systems and race hate!

ALl utter bollocks!

@PerditaProvokesEnmity - you beat me to it!

Surely that's what the OP (rightly) implies too?

I'd rather as many people as possible tried to find out why it's affecting a certain group of people (especially when it's not obvious) more than others. I don't think it's the time for misplaced political correctness!

This virus is killing people , the cure is being searched for world wide by everyone,it affects everyone..the only race issue here is the human race and the fight we are all having... any white person,any person of colour any one at all worldwide will care not one jot who is researching but instead be thankful that they are for all our sakes. Bloody ridiculous post at this dreadful time.

MrsTerry keeps posting this same opinion all over the place and I just keep thinking "yes, those poor BAME people who have been forced by bad luck to work for years and years as consultants for a hundred grand a year so that when this virus eventually strikes old whitey can stay safe". Listen to yourself!

And OP has kindly messaged someone to stop them having a discussion that could potentially HELP because none of the commenters were BAME?

Who in the following discussion is more racist
A "I think I might have an idea why this virus is affecting BAME people disproportionately and how we can help"
B "but you're white! Thems black issues"

Ridiculous and counterproductive

@fluffygreenmonsterhoody - glad it is not just me who finds the replies odd. Are people intentionally missing the point?

I want to be sensitive to other people and acknowledge that it's not something I can relate to on a personal level

The OP, who is not affected by this personally, is more concerned with the skin colour of those trying to establish specific ethnic vulnerability? Personally, I would like to know if and how I am more vulnerable to Covid. And whether I can mitigate that risk. I do not care in the slightest about the pigmentation of those doing the relevant analysis.

Are people intentionally missing the point?

Perhaps it is you who is missing the point @IamAporcupine. Perhaps those of us who might actually be affected by a genetic predisposition to Covid are less concerned with the skin colour of those investigating the potential reasons and more concerned with the results of any scientific analysis.

Someone's skin colour doesn't affect their ability to discuss science.

Equally, people in a professional group discussing a current and very pressing issue related to their profession is entirely reasonable. Are you suggesting that informal discussions between professionals should be prevented unless they can find someone with the lived experience of the phenomenon they're discussing?