Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is it unreasonable for a bunch of white people to debate rationale for higher proportion of BAME people dying from Covid-19?

211 replies

TGear · 15/04/2020 00:43

I am part of a professional group on Facebook. A member has asked why people from BAME communities have a higher number of covid-19 related deaths. It's now just a bunch of white people trying to work this out. Is this totally inappropriate? I want to be sensitive to other people and acknowledge that it's not something I can relate to on a personal level, but equally I feel everyone should be asking the answer to this to support those that are disproportionately affected.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 15/04/2020 01:54

I’ve heard various theories about vitamin D, genetic predisposition to body type etc. If one of them is correct and someone does the research and lives are saved who cares what ethnicity is involved in debating it.

And all those theories are based in biology. What if the reason is something to do with systemic racism. Riskier roles given to BAME people, less PPE, more front line roles... It could be but it won't be obvious to a group who doesn't experience it.

This happens BTW. Schizophrenia is over-diagnosed in BAME people. Lots of reasons could be biological but there are systemic reasons too; cultural magical thinking being diagnosed, not understood. HCP failing to diagnose depression, bipolar and other disorders in BAME people. BAME men particularly being assessed as 'riskier' because of racism.

I think the OP is a fair question. MN hates accusations of racism. Lots of defensiveness.

ArriettyJones · 15/04/2020 01:59

Social science would become tricky if researchers and academics could only discuss and research their own demographic.

Rayagoldensun · 15/04/2020 01:59

I am BAME and don’t give a toss what colour the people trying to come up with an answer are. All I ask is they have the necessary experience and brain power to be studying possible explanations.

Rummikub · 15/04/2020 02:02

I would rather the higher incidence rates be discussed by researchers and scientists than ignored as a BAME issue. It seems more racist to ignore it.

Spearmintgreen · 15/04/2020 02:04

So let me understand this. You are saying that the colour of a person's skin determines what they can, or cannot, discuss?

So let me understand this, are you really saying that this a new concept to you?

rosiejaune · 15/04/2020 02:04

Well if you mean "why aren't any of those people BAME?", then YANBU. Because at least part of the answer will be "racism" in that they either aren't in that profession, or if they are, they don't find the group accessible/welcoming.

But YABU to think that since white people are in those roles (whether they got their fairly or not), they shouldn't discuss it. Ignoring it would be racist.

rosiejaune · 15/04/2020 02:05

*there

ArriettyJones · 15/04/2020 02:07

And all those theories are based in biology. What if the reason is something to do with systemic racism. Riskier roles given to BAME people, less PPE, more front line roles... It could be but it won't be obvious to a group who doesn't experience it.

My mind went straight to social factors such as wealth/poverty, vocational choices/opportunities etc.

I think most statisticians, policy people, epidemiologists, sociologists (for example) could spot a lot of those possibilities and more.

However, someone with that background who also happened to be BAME might have an advantage in spotting extra factors.

It doesn’t mean only BAME professionals should look at and discuss the data, though.

Bunnyfuller · 15/04/2020 02:08

In BBC News yesterday: one third of Coronavirus victims from a BAME background.

So I am assuming the other two thirds are from a Caucasian background.

When did one third become more than two thirds?

Spearmintgreen · 15/04/2020 02:11

@Bunnyfuller One third has never become more than two thirds. Possibly you could look at percentage as an alternative?

Joliany · 15/04/2020 02:13

I think the OP is a fair question. MN hates accusations of racism. Lots of defensiveness

Most people don't like being accused of being things they are not. Are you ok with being called racist?

Bunnyfuller · 15/04/2020 02:15

@Spearmintgreen

My point was the majority of victims are NOT BAME. However it is expressed.

ArriettyJones · 15/04/2020 02:19

When did one third become more than two thirds?

Is that global figures or U.K. figures?

Because U.K. pop. was only about 14% BAME in 2011 (maybe slightly higher now) so 33% would be a dramatic over-representation in the casualty figures.

FagashJackie · 15/04/2020 02:19

Bunny. One third of the population is not bame, that's why it's concerning that one third of the deaths are.

Monty27 · 15/04/2020 02:21

These studies have been done before by trade unions and were ignored. It's nothing I never knew. I can't understand why people think it's new news.
I'm white by the way. Does that negate me?
Good lord I never heard the likes Angry

ArriettyJones · 15/04/2020 02:21

My point was the majority of victims are NOT BAME. However it is expressed.

@Bunnyfuller it’s not about whether a majority of victims are BAME but about whether the figures are proportional to the general population.

Spearmintgreen · 15/04/2020 02:29

@joliany are you okay with being called racist I have never been called racist, have you? Would you find it distressing and look at your own behaviour?

DysonFury · 15/04/2020 02:30

What's your profession OP? Wokeness?

fallfallfall · 15/04/2020 02:45

Oddly enough Trump and his team discussed this. More blacks are ending up in ICU, and with worse outcomes. The surgeon general on his team who is black discuses both the medical and sociological reasons why. It was a good 4/5 days ago but he covered it well and urged his fellow brothers and sisters to not wait to seek treatment. He did an excellent job.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/04/2020 02:59

Are you ok with being called racist?

Fish don't see the water.

I grew up with skinheads roaming the streets unchallenged, pubs I couldn't go in with BAME friends (particularly male BAME friends), parents who were at least subconsciously racist and their friends were overtly. A little may have rubbed off and it's worth a quick self-inventory to check. Leaping straight to HOW VERY DARE YOU does smell a little of never having bothered checking.

Spearmintgreen · 15/04/2020 03:01

@fallfallfall Who did an excellent job?

fallfallfall · 15/04/2020 03:18

Jerome Adams the Surgeon General on Trumps Covid team.

fallfallfall · 15/04/2020 03:24

www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4/11/21217428/surgeon-general-jerome-adams-big-mama-coronavirus
I’m not keen on the write up, but he spoke 6 days ago about this very issue and I thought he did an excellent job.

bettybattenburg · 15/04/2020 03:29

A member has asked why people from BAME communities have a higher number of covid-19 related deaths. It's now just a bunch of white people trying to work this out. Is this totally inappropriate

Whereas letting it be ignored so number of people from the minority communities disproportionately affected is wholly appropriate? Yes, let's just let more continue dying while white scientists only focus on saving white people. Great idea OPShock

I wasn't aware that Facebook had any professional groups. How inappropriate.

Spearmintgreen · 15/04/2020 03:31

Did you really? In what way?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.