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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how schools can realistically reopen when there is still a killer virus about with no vaccine?

706 replies

JustCantShakeIt · 14/04/2020 12:11

I’m not talking about them reopening now, in May or June or even September.

Who is prepared to send their DC into a school with hundreds of other DC, where social distancing and keeping a germ free environment is literally impossible, even with the best wills in the world, when there is a life threatening disease floating about which is highly transmittable and you have no guarantee it won’t make your DC severely ill or die.

Social distancing just between parents will be impossible at my DC’s school of over 500 where we all have to wait outside the main gates at pick up time.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m desperate for schools to reopen before my DC turn completely feral, but I don’t see how that can happen until we have a vaccine. We’re being told to stay home and keep our distance now due to the risk, the risk will be the same next month or in 5 months won’t it?

OP posts:
Really12345 · 14/04/2020 15:04

Healthcare staff in the vulnerable group are expected to be in work with covid patients, those that are very vulnerable are allowed to be on non covid wards. Those that are shielding are working from home with telephone triage and admin etc. So maybe shielded teachers could carry out the remote schooling for shielded pupils? Vulnerable teachers to work with less risky groups such as older children who have a greater chance of remembering social distancing etc....

LucheroTena · 14/04/2020 15:05

@Really12345 yes that would be sensible. But sense doesn’t seem to cut through the hysteria some on here are displaying.

Confusedbutheyho · 14/04/2020 15:05

It’s great if you’re immune or children are but to a large amount of people dying whilst gasping for air from a mysterious virus that attacks your lungs is quite scary whether you like it or not so it’s good to be a little sensitive to that matter.

LuluJakey1 · 14/04/2020 15:06

I was astonished by how many teachers in two schools I know of identified as being vulnerable through health conditions not previously known.
DH is a Head in a secondary school and so is my cousin.
DH - 75 teachers and 34 identified as vulnerable- some are pregnant, 2 had heart conditions, 2 diabetics, 9 with asthma, there were auto-immune conditions, cancer, kidney problems. Obviously he knew about some of those but the auto-immune conditions and asthma were mainly unknown. There was a similar pattern amongst the 49 support staff.

My cousin is in a smaller school of 52 teachers and 23 identified as vulnerable with a similar range of issues- and again many unknown to her. Of her Leadership Team of 5 plus her, 4 announced they had health conditions that had never been mentioned before but put the into the category of vulnerable. One says she has asthma but does not have an inhaler even, yet had a letter from her GP saying she was vulnerable. Of 31 support staff 18 declared they have health conditions that make them vulnerable.

I am sceptical about these numbers- not all of course, some were known about and some are clearly true. The ones where this has never been mentioned or raised its head before. The declarations mean they are not able to attend the school to supervise key workers' children. I suspect it suits quite a lot of them to not do this.

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 15:06

The schools shut because teachers who are vulnerable stopped going into work and parents with vulnerable children or who are in the vulnerable group withdrew their kids.
The government wants us all to get it, and the disabled and ill who are vulnerable to die. That is their plan. And that will be better for the economy.
They don't care that many of us will die, and neither do a lot of parents.

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 15:08

@Really12345 Yes I know that. And healthcare staff are dying. At least they have inadequate PPE. Teachers will have none. And teachers will die too.

flumposie · 14/04/2020 15:08

The leaders of the teaching union have written a letter today asking how they intend to manage the opening of schools due to the speculation about when they will reopen. As a teacher and parent it makes interesting reading. I am glad that questions have been raised.

goshdarnitjanet · 14/04/2020 15:09

LuluJakey1 I think you should don your hard hat now....

iamapixie · 14/04/2020 15:09

Yabu. Risks have to be weighed up depending on evidence.

LucheroTena · 14/04/2020 15:10

Some people are not as vulnerable as they think they are. The list isn’t nuanced enough and as we go forward it will need to be redefined. For example it lumps groups of cancers, some of whom will have no less ability to make immune response than a healthy person. We have a doctor at work with asthma on steroids who continues to work clinically as she got individualised advice on her risk from her respiratory specialist. While others with uncomplicated ventolin inhaler controlled asthma are classing themselves as vulnerable and won’t even come to work.

Alialialiali · 14/04/2020 15:11

The government wants us all to get it, and the disabled and ill who are vulnerable to die
Why do you people not get it? The vulnerable have been asked to stay indoors till everyone's had it.

LucheroTena · 14/04/2020 15:11

There is no reason for teachers to not be issued with PPE as per health workers. This would mean wearing plastic aprons, surgical masks and gloves with instruction on how to wear them correctly.

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 15:13

@LuluJakey1 The one who does not even have an inhaler sounds dodgy. But I am in the shielded group and have never mentioned my conditions to my employer. Why would I? If it does not affect my work I am entitled to medical privacy.
Lots of people are very private about their medical conditions. I have known people undergoing cancer treatment who tell only those they can't avoid telling.

nobodyimportant · 14/04/2020 15:13

The 0.01% of children who die have serious underlying conditions. There is literally nothing to suggest that sending healthy children to school will lead to deaths.

Of course it will. The question is only if those deaths are an acceptable number or not. Closing schools also leads to deaths (sadly) so it's about getting the balance right. But there is no way, while this virus is in circulation as it is now, that it is possible to open schools without deaths. Mostly it will be staff (which I think we have established plenty on MN don't care bout) and some of them will be children. And no, they won't all be people with underlying health conditions. This virus kills healthy people too.

LondonJax · 14/04/2020 15:15

@IheartNiles - you're right. When PPE was available, there wasn't anything stopping teachers getting some and wearing it. However, many of the primary school teachers in our local hub (the key worker school), felt it was inappropriate as the younger children would be extremely frightened by someone wearing full masks etc.,

Whether they'd have a different view now as children see this on TV and in the streets (well, the mask at least) may be a different point.

However, as we can't seem to provide enough PPE for care homes at the moment, it's a bit of moot point really.

BreathlessCommotion · 14/04/2020 15:16

@alloutoffucks not particularly mild, but I can understand risks.

Its is still a very small risk of her getting it. I can't keep her locked up in a bubble forever.

It isn't comparable to drink driving. The risks are the lower than the risk of being in a car, with air bags, car seats, seat belts etc.

Air pollution is a huge risk with no one gives a toss about normally.

I'm not suggesting they go back next week, but this closing of schools isn't about protecting children or teachers. It is about flattening the curve.

LaurieMarlow · 14/04/2020 15:16

which I think we have established plenty on MN don't care bout

Can we drop this bollocks please.

And answer this, how do we pay for public sector salaries (including teachers and healthcare workers) when the economy is totally halted and no tax revenues are coming in?

Watertorture · 14/04/2020 15:17

The only medical conditions I would tell my employer about are ones that would lead or have led to me being off work.

Kazzyhoward · 14/04/2020 15:19

Some people are not as vulnerable as they think they are.

Exactly. At the moment, it's a blanket approach to warn all the vulnerable groups to isolate etc as the scientists/medics don't yet know who is truly vulnerable and who isn't. Over time, they'll have the statistics on who is catching it (male/female, ethnicity, age, health conditions, etc), and the same analysis of who is needing ICU treatment, and who are ultimately more likely to die with or without treatment. When they have that data, they can start to be more specific as to which "vulnerable" groups are really the most vulnerable who need the ultimate protection and which "vulnerable" groups aren't actually that vulnerable after all and can start to go about normal lives again.

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 15:20

@BreathlessCommotion Some of us care very much about air pollution and have campaigned on this.

@laurielarlow Amongst my family and friends most people are still working at home or going in. The only two people I know who arent is a friend who works in a printing shop and myself - I do lab and office work, but it is not medical related, so not essential. But others are working.

BreathlessCommotion · 14/04/2020 15:21

Also interesting how some people don't care about the vulnerable children suffering abuse, who are missing education- those who will never catch up. The MH costs to many children and young people from this extended period.

My daughter also has ASD and this break in routine has been traumatic.

Ihavenoregrets · 14/04/2020 15:21

@Butterymuffin Of course love Hmm

LaurieMarlow · 14/04/2020 15:22

But others are working.

Well my office is still ‘working’. 90% of our contracts have been cancelled and we’ve taken big pay cuts. Who knows if we’ll have a job in 2 months.

Have you seen the unemployment figures? And the numbers on furlough who will probably be unemployed soon?

Kazzyhoward · 14/04/2020 15:22

There is literally nothing to suggest that sending healthy children to school will lead to deaths.

Of course there is. The children may not die of it, but if they catch it, which is highly likely, they'll be spreading it to vulnerable people, such as school staff, parents, grandparents, siblings, shop workers (when buying their sweets), bus drivers, and so on. Kids don't live in a vacuum - they'll spread it to everyone they come into contact with.

nobodyimportant · 14/04/2020 15:24

And answer this, how do we pay for public sector salaries (including teachers and healthcare workers) when the economy is totally halted and no tax revenues are coming in?

A lot of people are still working and paying taxes, including teachers. Just because they aren't working in such a visible way doesn't mean it isn't happening. I do think schools will need to extend their opening as childcare at some point, before we go back to being fully open.