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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how schools can realistically reopen when there is still a killer virus about with no vaccine?

706 replies

JustCantShakeIt · 14/04/2020 12:11

I’m not talking about them reopening now, in May or June or even September.

Who is prepared to send their DC into a school with hundreds of other DC, where social distancing and keeping a germ free environment is literally impossible, even with the best wills in the world, when there is a life threatening disease floating about which is highly transmittable and you have no guarantee it won’t make your DC severely ill or die.

Social distancing just between parents will be impossible at my DC’s school of over 500 where we all have to wait outside the main gates at pick up time.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m desperate for schools to reopen before my DC turn completely feral, but I don’t see how that can happen until we have a vaccine. We’re being told to stay home and keep our distance now due to the risk, the risk will be the same next month or in 5 months won’t it?

OP posts:
neveradullmoment99 · 14/04/2020 14:34

Tell me how playtime might work for a start.

neveradullmoment99 · 14/04/2020 14:34

@Butterymuffin - Its about both.

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 14:35

@Makeitgoaway They are in the vulnerable list, not the shielded group. The government would want them to work.
But when they die their deaths would be reported as people with underlying health problems.

Followthelight99 · 14/04/2020 14:35

Children ARE as much at risk from this as anyone else.

nobodyimportant · 14/04/2020 14:36
  1. In that last week before all schools were closed, many schools were having to close anyway due to lack of staff with vulnerable people staying away and people following self-isolation rules. It was really, very hard on the staff that were left in school. They certainly were not functioning normally or educating the children as normal. Please let's not kid ourselves that if schools open before things have substantially improved the children will be getting anything like a normal education.
  1. When schools open it is not only the children that mix. Teachers are not the only staff in schools. There are TAs, office staff, leadership staff, site staff, dinner staff and others. This situation has shown me more than ever how invisible all these roles are. It may be true that a lot of the teachers you see are young and apparently fit and healthy but that's not true of all staff in schools. We also have all the parents and carers, literally hundreds of them, crammed into limited space outside the school for drop off and pick up every day. A sizeable percentage are grandparents. Many are pregnant mothers. There is no hope of social distancing inside or outside of school.
  1. Before the schools closed, when people were complaining on my local FB group about groups of teens hanging around together outside school, people were very quick to point out that there's no good telling them it's ok to be together all day in school but somehow once outside school it wasn't safe. As soon as it is declared safe for schools to be open I think a huge proportion of people will assume that all social distancing is now unnecessary.

4.. I saw an expert explain that even though the percentage of children that die from this is very small, you could still be talking about 800 children losing their lives.

I wish people would stop implying that school staff are lazy and selfish not wanting schools to be open. I was in school yesterday, yes on bank holiday Monday, to look after keyworker children. I'm quite happy to do as I'm asked and take the personal risk for the greater good. But there's so much more to it than that.

WhiteWriting · 14/04/2020 14:36

@Bitofeverything - 'have absolutely no idea why 80% of teachers at a school are claiming to need shielding. Sounds statistically improbable.'
Nice use of 'claiming' there. Your implication?
Why should any teacher be forced back into a potentially deadly situation? Most seem so keen to have the kids out from under their feet that they have completely dismissed the staff as collateral damage. I am one of those staff and I am very scared of what will happen next!

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 14:36

Children with underlying conditions are at risk. But they don't seem to matter either.

WhiteWriting · 14/04/2020 14:36

@Bitofeverything - 'have absolutely no idea why 80% of teachers at a school are claiming to need shielding. Sounds statistically improbable.'
Nice use of 'claiming' there. Your implication?
Why should any teacher be forced back into a potentially deadly situation? Most seem so keen to have the kids out from under their feet that they have completely dismissed the staff as collateral damage. I am one of those staff and I am very scared of what will happen next!

DotBall · 14/04/2020 14:39

I’m a teacher who’s shielding. I’m hoping the Govt. will see sense and not look until Sept at the very earliest for reopening. If it’s earlier than that then they won’t have me in the classroom and there will be hundreds like me out there.

Followthelight99 · 14/04/2020 14:39

My child almost lost his life to flu (six weeks on a ventilator in PICU) so there is absolutely no way I will be sending him back before it is safe to do so.

neveradullmoment99 · 14/04/2020 14:39

Why should any teacher be forced back into a potentially deadly situation? Most seem so keen to have the kids out from under their feet that they have completely dismissed the staff as collateral damage. I am one of those staff and I am very scared of what will happen next!

Me too. I also have my own children and am worried sick.

LucheroTena · 14/04/2020 14:39

All the bonkers people can keep their children at home and emerge when they wish. They don’t speak for me.

Most of us have to work to put food on the table and keep the country functioning. We’ll accept the risk to said children is low and send them back to school.

Some of us are key workers who still have to put our children in school, commute on overcrowded and slower than grass grow public transport and are constantly exposed to this virus at work and getting to work. It gives you some perspective.

Quartz2208 · 14/04/2020 14:40

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Shows that 0.07 are under 19. 92% are over 60. Its care homes which are problematic

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 14:40

They won't be in the shielding group, they are probably in the vulnerable group. A very high percentage of people are.

Followthelight99 · 14/04/2020 14:41

Try telling that to a mum who nearly lost her child to flu due to his underlying health conditions.

Pebble21uk · 14/04/2020 14:42

I read this morning (but afraid I can't quote the source, can't remember where I read it) that so far 50 Education workers have died of Covid and of those 21 were teachers.

Social distancing is impossible in schools

Makeitgoaway · 14/04/2020 14:42

Alloutoffucks yes I realise they are "only" the vulnerable group but their unions will be (were) strongly advising them not to be in school. If schools/government try to insist that they work, they will get signed off by their doctors with (genuine) stress and anxiety. Having been told quite strongly that it is dangerous for them to be out in public it's a big ask for them suddenly to decide they're safe enough in school.

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 14:43

@IheartNiles Nice to see your concern for school staff.

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 14:46

@Makeitgoaway I do not think they should be working either and I really hope your union fights so they don't.
I know a significant proportion of parents want them to put their life at risk though so their kids can socialise with their friends again.
The lack of concern for school staff shows the utter selfishness of some parents.
Without vulnerable school staff working, schools can't reopen to all kids. Those who are vulnerable are a very wide group. The conditions are very common.

BreathlessCommotion · 14/04/2020 14:46

If you drive your children to school, or in fact anywhere then they are at more risk then than from covid 19 in school. Or from the air pollution from parents sitting running their engines.

justanotherneighinparadise · 14/04/2020 14:46

My very healthy primary aged child had pneumonia last year so I’m in a very good position to talk about fear of sending my children back to school, but what can you realistically do? They need an education and he loves school and his friends. I just have to hope it was an anomaly. He had scans afterwards and he has no lung damage but that happened outside of a pandemic! This shit is scary.

LondonJax · 14/04/2020 14:48

When this started one of our classes went from 30 to 8 in a few days. One reason was because a few went down with a dry cough so parents kept the child off, very sensibly. One child had diabetes, two or three are asthmatic. Some children were pulled out of school because a member of the family was vulnerable and one had recovered from leukaemia. The others had parents who felt more comfortable with the child being kept home.

Now, assuming the same rules apply when lockdown ends, what happens if teachers have children who have asthma, diabetes etc? I'm assuming the child has to stay home. In which case the teacher stays home. So that's a teacher down. Because the child can't stay home alone and can't come into school because they are vulnerable.

Teachers don't keep an emergency supply of teachers, they can't just be conjured up. Supply teachers would be in the same predicament if they have children. As would TAs and other teaching helpers.

I can imagine there are a fair few teachers in that position - childhood asthma is real issue in some cities for example. Add to that diabetic or asthmatic teachers, those who are in remission from cancers or who are shielding those who are and you're missing a bit of the workforce. Even losing three or four teachers would mean a doubling up of classes in some primary schools. How does that work with social distancing?

And how does opening part time or just for one or two particular years help parents return to work? If you have two kids - one in year 2 and one in year 4 both going in for part of the week you, as a parent, can't return to work unless it's the same part of the week. Quite apart from those who have secondary and primary children. If you had a year 6 going to school and a year 7 in a different school, not allowed in because you're not a key worker, what exactly do you do?

And if they did open to your children for limited days, you'd only be able to do the two or three days the kids are in school unless you were a key worker and could get a place in a hub for your kids. So employers will have to be patient - and I can't see that happening with some employers to be honest.

Personally I can see a few more groups added to the key workers list so that schools can manage to provide the same care as they do at the moment with hubs. Then a few more schools becoming hubs and opening up to accommodate more key workers children with teachers on a rota as they are at the moment. That would allow social distancing and eliminate the issue of 'year 7 kids in school, year 8 kids at home and parents torn between the two'.

The rest of the kids staying at home. Because if places like cinemas and restaurants are likely to be the last to open, in theory, the children of those people don't need to be at school as the parents are home. Then the schools could manage and key workers gradually increasing as more sectors open up. As now, all the kids would be doing the same work, just in different places (school or home), via the internet.

I can't see any other way of doing it. 70% of our local secondary school are bussed in and you can't do social distancing on a double decker. I can imagine bus drivers refusing to take school buses, rammed with kids like they are at the moment, but they too don't have spare buses waiting in the wings to double up. If you can't get the kids to school, the school can't teach.

hopsalong · 14/04/2020 14:48

I'm not sure the government will make it as simple as just saying 'there's a killer virus around and I don't want to send my children to school', then sending them back as soon as a vaccine is found.

Homeschooling is of course an option but how many working parents who are currently letting their kids be on screens half the day and play the other half (hands up...) are going to be able to do that? How many currently WFH parents would even be able to stay at home in the future to supervise their children?

Even if you're a SAHP to devote a large part of every day to home education for the foreseeable future, what about the long term? The most desirable schools aren't going to hold places open indefinitely to families who've registered as homeschooling. (I assume one would have to do that -- otherwise it's failing to attend / truancy.)

alloutoffucks · 14/04/2020 14:49

@BreathlessCommotion That is not true if your child is medically vulnerable. And it is not true for the school staff.
Vulnerable includes having diabetes and asthma. These are the people who when they die are described as having underlying conditions.

VeryOrangeDoor · 14/04/2020 14:50

Worrying. I'm trying to avoid thinking about it. There really is not much we can do about it.