To think these toddler tantrums can’t be normal?

[Nosleeptoddler]

DS is 3.4. He has terrible tantrums. Every day, at least 3 - often up to 10+ on a bad day. At least 1 or 2 of them will go on for 45mins+ and involve screaming and rolling around in the floor. He is lucid enough to know he is tantrumming (he’ll often scream “I’M NOT SCREAMING”) but cannot seem to stop. He never hits or breaks anything it’s just screaming and throwing himself about.

This has been going on every single day since he turned 2. He (normally) goes to nursery 3 hours a day and is perfectly behaved there - it’s only at home that he tantrums.

I know that toddlers have tantrums, but this just seems so extreme and is ruining our family life (we have younger DD, 14mo). I have scoured lists of adhd/Asd signs and nothing seems to fit but I feel like something has to be going on, I read articles about when to be concerned and it says things like “if this is happening more than twice a week”. Twice a week! I’d be lucky if it happened less than twice a day!

AIBU to think there must be something going on?

Have you spoken to nursery about it?

What triggers them - is there any pattern? How’s his sleep and screen time? My DS is 3.2 and has recently started having some epic tantrums which I think is partly his age and partly the current situation. He is particularly horrible when he has had too much screen time, particularly if he’s been on my phone, and not enough fresh air and time with me actively playing with him. Is yours an only or has he got siblings?

Have you discussed with your health visitor?

Nursery don’t see the behaviour directly as he’s perfectly behaved there, and just say to be gentle and supportive. Which obviously we are. It’s a bit of a hippy nursery so they are very much “let them be” which is fine but I am starting to just wonder if I am doing DS a disservice by not investigating this

@BadgertheBodger no particular pattern annoyingly.

Generally, he is horrendous with TV/screens, he’s never been allowed much but I have recently cut them out altogether as the behaviour is so bad after any screen time it’s not worth it. Has never been a great sleeper either but is very susceptible to reward charts so when he starts to wake we implement another chart and that tends to get him back on track. Tantrums don’t seem to get demonstrably worse when he’s tired.

Also a poor eater (always has been), he’s just not interested in food much.

He has a younger sister, 14mo.

What seems to trigger the tantrums?

This was my son. He was eventually diagnosed with Developmental Language Disorder and sensory processing difficulties. This doesn't mean to say your sons aren't normal tantrums for his age. My older son had plenty of tantrums but his brothers where just different. Quite a lot of photos taken of him aged 2-4 he was crying in.

@OoohTheStatsDontLie unfortunately I have one of those chocolate teapot HVs, I’ve mentioned it and she had no idea what to say & was flummoxed - in the end she just said she thought he was delightful and it wouldn’t be a problem

He is particularly horrible when he has had too much screen time, particularly if he’s been on my phone, and not enough fresh air and time with me actively playing with him.

My DD (3 this month) is like this at the moment. She is highly strung on a good day but add in the lack of social interaction and fresh air and exercise and we are seeing epic tantrums.

I have had to limit the screen time, give a warning 2 mins before she needs to come off and have something else to distract straight away.

She also seems easier to manage when she has had to really engage her brain so reading, simple number games, I spy type activities have been helpful.

Does he wake early OP? How is his diet? And would you say his language skills are 'normal'?

Did they start when his sister was born? Does he get alone time with you? Could it be a cry for attention? Do you fuss over him when he tantrums or walk away and leave him to it?

It sounds a lot through the day, particularly if he’s been like this for over a year. Is it usually because he’s not getting his way or something else? DS can be a beast with transitions from one thing to the next, which I can usually keep in check with a warning/countdown sort of system eg in 5 mins we’re going to get dressed, in 2 mins, in 1 min. Then offer a choice - would you like to wear this or this?

@overweightcat really anything at all (and often nothing!). The only overarching theme (and it’s a v broad one) is him feeling in control. For example today, he and his sister woke up at 7. He tried to give her a hug and she thought he was playing a game and ran away. 25 minute tantrum (“I wanted to give her a hug!”). Then he calmed down for 5 mins and my husband took my daughter down the stairs to have milk and breakfast. This triggered another 45 minute tantrum (“I wanted to be the leader down the stairs!”) accompanied by screaming in my face and then screaming more when I move more than 5cm away from him. He’s currently happily having breakfast and I’m exhausted .

But honestly the Most random things set him off it’s incredible.

I wondered if it could be connected to low blood sugar then saw he isn't a great eater. We're lucky in that DD isn't generally a big tantrumer, but low blood sugar will cause them.

@cocomelon23 they started about a month before his sister was born. He gets so much alone time with me that I feel almost guilty - his (placid, jolly) little sister gets left behind so much and we spend so much time attending to his needs I worry about her! I don’t doubt that her arrival didn’t help matters but she is 14 months old now and it’s not improving.

I walk away and leave him to it, and he will follow me around and demand attention. I often have to lock myself in a room or hide under my bedcovers for the 30-45mins it takes for him to flame out.

And his language skills are excellent, he’s highly verbal and was an early talker.

Low blood sugar is interesting...maybe I need to keep a combined food/tantrum diary for a week and review.

Poor you.
How do you react when the tantrums start?

Try to talk him down / distract him. If that doesn’t work I just say well if you’re going to have a tantrum I’ll be over here, come and find me when you’ve finished screaming.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but from your last couple of posts it seems like he's getting attention for acting like this. Have you tried playing with DD while he's tantruming and then giving him loads of positive attention when he's calmed down?

Hi OP

I'm watching with interest as my toddler (2 years 9 months) is the same.

He will tantrum about the weirdest things such as:

• his dad using my car to go shopping instead of his own
• I get a slap if his dad goes in the bath😫
• certain shoes for certain activities (likes soft slippers for water play and converse for normal garden play)
• obsessive behaviour with regards to toys (downstairs toys and not allowed upstairs and vice versa)
• will only go one route to the shops, park, nannys house (not at the minute obviously)

These are all triggers and only a few of the many triggers...I'm at my wits end!

You have my sympathies OP

I've had 2 boys go through that stage and from my experience it's painfully normal.

3 is a fucking horrible age.

All day is screaming and tantrums.

Often a tantrum can last 2 hours.

And the bed times. Fuck me, the fucking bed times.

They are 9 and 13 now and I have a 1 year old.
I have to have massive gaps in between my children to get over the trauma.

3 is an evil age.

(Btw the 9 and 13 year old are now perfectly balanced, beautiful, calm lovely boys!)

Sounds like he’s 3 and wants to be in charge (You answered your question) which is completely normal. Try structuring things so he’s making decisions and “being in charge” (he won’t actually be in charge as he’ll be doing things you want him to do, it’s just the way you guide the situation). Give him jobs to do like sweeping the floor, putting away his clothes/washing...things that make him feel important.

I don’t think it’s necessarily needing 1-1, but more how normal interactions go. You mention he reacts well to reward charts. How’s his behaviour when he’s not tantruming? If he’s always being corrected or told off etc or his behaviour is being commented on then he may be overwhelmed. He’s starting to have more emotions but doesn’t know how to process them or let them out. Being leader going down stairs is really important to him. Show him how to handle not getting his own way and model the behaviour you want. Teach him what his emotions are and how to deal with them and what to do around others (google at “sportscasting”).

He’ll also need some help calming down during his meltdown as it will be scary for him to be experiencing. They get to a point during a meltdown that whatever set them off is no longer the thing they’re crying about and they’re just unsure about what is going on, angry, tired and have found themselves screaming on the floor and don’t know how to make it stop. They’ve committed to being upset and they don’t have a Plan B. Take a look at Janet Lansbury or aha parenting for some ideas on how to connect and give him the tools to deal with his emotions. There’s a lot to be said for the hippy dippy approach!

It may take a bit of time to help learn how to handle his emotions but he’ll get there.

We had this with our second but as he was diagnosed with serious vision problems at 9 months we knew what was causing them, in fact as ridiculous as it sounds he was having tantrums from about 6 months, if he could hear my voice but not see me - meltdown - up to 10 times a day that then became a habit even after the vision problem were corrected, until he was 6ish. Exhausting but we always tried to let him hear us tell him we were here when he was ready for a cuddle, I once at a complete loss filmed him and when I showed him the next day he vehemently denied it was him, he literally couldn’t recognise himself. He’s still strong minded, always right and as a teen now partial to a strop but I Wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s not easy but it will pass.

This is reading like my DD. Lots of tantrums over tiny things that I couldn't have predicted. I didn't want to label her and for some time though - she is within the bounds of normal, just highly strung and difficult to manage. She is great at school and high achieving academically. Then she got an extreme twich to go with the tantrums which I now recognise as stiming. Without this additional behaviour I probably wouldn't have pushed further but she has now been diagnosed with high functioning ASD. Nothing will change for her except I can hope to manage her better and we can access school support if we need it. We don't currently. Just to say there are lots of neurological things like this that are difficult to spot but knowing a bit about them might help you see if any apply to you. Good luck

My oldest daughter was like this. Huge huge tantrums which went on and on, day and night. Once it started it was so hard to stop, there was no distracting her out of it at all.

She is now 8, is bright and sociable and has been described by school as a model pupil!

She still can have a tantrum though if she doesn’t get her own way - she is learning to control this more as she gets older but I think it’s part of her personality, she is exceptionally strong willed and determined.

Good luck with it, I remember it being so hard to deal with at the time