disgusted that nurses/carers/doctors are dying for lack of PPE in 6th richest country

[wemustnotforget]

When this is all over (or maybe now) we must hold Boris and team responsible for risking so many lives.

Our health secretary said this -
“We need everyone to treat PPE like the precious resource it is,” he said on Friday. “Everyone should use the equipment they clinically need, in line with the guidelines: no more and no less.”

Nurses, porters, doctors are sacrificing their own safety and Matt Hockock has nerves to say they must not OVERUSE PPE, they dont have PPEs. Why was he chosen for this job when his background is in economics?

From wikipedia -
He studied at Exeter College, Oxford, and graduated with a first in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and went on to Christ's College, Cambridge, to earn an MPhil degree in Economics.[5][6] Hancock became a member of the Conservative Party in 1999.[7]
After university, Hancock briefly worked for his family's computer software company, before moving to London to work as an economist at the Bank of England, specialising in the housing market.

A doctor who warned Boris a month ago about risks of medical staff working without PPEs has died of corona virus at the age of 53.

In his message to the prime minister, Dr Chowdhury wrote: "Please ensure urgently PPE for each and every NHS health worker in the UK.

"Remember we may be doctors/nurses/HCAs/allied health workers who are in direct contact with patients, but we are also human beings to practice human rights like others, to live in this world disease free with our family and children.

"Otherwise in future our children will lose interest to go to medical school.
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctor-who-warned-prime-minister-about-ppe-dies-with-covid-19-11971068

And for those who are going to say I am making it political at the time of crisis, no I am not. I want this government to be accountable for their actions.

Why UK declined EU's offer of collective PPE purchase.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/no-10-boris-johnson-accused-of-putting-brexit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row

Did anyone read the reasons why stocks are low... Having now read 2 versions of the report?

China... the Poe is coming from China and:

Some crates are being removed before take off for 'quality checks'

When it does arrive some crates do not contain what is on the docket

Some of it, when checked this end, is sub standard.

This not only happening in the UK.

The more information we get, from reliable sources, the more obvious it becomes that the problem is global, exacerbated by issues we cannot control.

So maybe when Hancock said be careful how you use it he had a point, but didn't want to give some journalists a second birthday headline!

As far as I am aware, PPE is not something you can stockpile (OK, maybe a small qty), because it degrades over time, and presumably designs change.
I read that nurses had complained about using stuff that was out of date.
So, there has to be a way of manufacturing PPE within the UK, and I certainly think it good that companies that normally make other stuff, have diverted their production into manufacturing PPE.
Maybe a HCP can answer the following question;
Am I correct, that gloves, apron, masks, and visor are plastic and single use, and must be changed between patients?
Under that, I understand is worn long gown thingys. Are these also single use, or are they washable?
I read somewhere these are normally produced in China, and are coated with water preventative measures, so wonder if they have to be disposed of afterwards.
Also, are the gowns changed between each patient, or just the top layer?
Or do they wear complate hazmat suit?
Otherwise, I heard that some deliveries had been mis-labelled. That labelled as gowns, and turned out to be masks.
Also, delivery previsouly was to just over 200 Trusts, but now have to be 55,000 places so include homes, and surgeries, so these things combined may explain some of the problems.

Am I correct, that gloves, apron, masks, and visor are plastic and single use, and must be changed between patients?

Ordinarily, yes, all of this would be changed between patients. It would be unthinkable to move between patients wearing the same PPE because of cross infection. I don't no usual protocol for wearing n95 masks because I only ever needed to wear surgical masks

Under that, I understand is worn long gown thingys. Are these also single use, or are they washable?

They are disposable

Even if we could start to manufacture plastic gloves etc here, the plastic comes from China.

My hay supplier is worried about making hay this year because plastic baler twine comes from China -an example of how most cheap plastic comes from.China

@milveycrohn It has a use by date, but yes you can stockpile it. We used to as a country and dispose of old stock. We stopped doing this to save money. And we did not even try to stockpile when China was warning us to prepare.

We have never stockpiled ppe.

The trouble is, because so much hokey ppe is now being made by anyone with a sewing machine, the public thinks thst PPE must be easy.

Usually there are all kinds of certifications etc needed before you can even consider making PPE!

Not all plastic comes from China. It mainly does because labour is very cheap there, $1-2 a day. Not because China has miraculous plastic trees.

So once again it comes down to inequality and greed.

Exactly @alloutoffucks - you rotate your stockpile! Use/dispose of stock about to go out of date and replenish. It's not that difficult.

@Tonyaster - yes we have. At the start of this year we had 2 million items (some out of date) - but not enough for a pandemic.

@Tonyaster the MHRA is now doing a fast track form of documentation/certification to allow fast manufacture. Some companies are using 3D printing for visors. Some factories are sewing scrubs from ordinary cotton fabric. Scrubs are normally laundered in house in hospitals.

No site visits? No labour checks? No compliance with diversity/green manufacturing/staff mental health checklists?

All things uk manufacturing in the public sector have to spend ages doing normally.

I think its great that we have all hands to the pump, don't gwt me wrong. But a lot of the normal bureaucracy has been sidestepped. It's partly that bureaucracy that makes uk manufacturing for the public sector so unattractive for new players. Plus we have the minimum wage which makes the pricing unaffordable when compared to China.

We aren't going to have much money left afyer this so I cannot see a return to uk manufacturing in any big way.

@Clavinova, you speak of a "a political agenda"

Just to check, you do agree that Buffoon, Raab, Hancock, Gove and Patel all have a political agenda, and are pushing it as hard as they can?

you speak of a "a political agenda"

Richard Horton is presented as an independent expert - he is not independent at all.

Richard Horton's tweet after the general election;

^"The UK seems to have elected the most right-wing populist government just about ever. And it’s our fault. #shame""

@Tonyaster you clearly have some weird political agenda which is great!! we know you supply PPE so not frontline. Now think if your parent/daughter/ friend is on the frontline how would you feel? You have not answered any of my questions but,vare happy to bat them off. Lucky for us we have the RCN on side, withdraw treatment without proper PPE. This is a last resort for Nurses but why should I put my Life on the line? It's not like the government had a warning about a pandemic. Oh wait they did.

you clearly have some weird political agenda not weird, but I voted conservative. Labour in power are absolutely terrible about ordering PPE!

Sorry, I missed your questions? If they are about PPE supply I can probably answer them.

we know you supply PPE so not frontline

That depends what frontline you are talking about. Not for the NHS, no.

Quite honestly when all this is over (presuming he survives) I’m going to beg Dh to go part time in the NHS. He could either increase his private work or do some medico legal work, with a view to taking early retirement from the NHS altogether ASAP. He’s 53 now and this shit show is the last straw. When he became a consultant in 2004 things were good, and he was able to develop and build up his specialty. Then the austerity measures came along and it’s been downhill ever since. Time for him to plan his exit from the NHS - which is a shame because he’s brilliant at his job.

Tonyaster in every thread I have seen her defends Boris and the government.
If the government started shooting disabled people I could imagine tonyaster defending it.

@madroid Exactly this is basic. The reason there is a lack of PPE is the government stopped stockpiling it to save money. So what was stockpiled was old equipment. Workers are paying the price.
As I said before a friend is a HCA and is working with disposable gloves, mask and aprons but no eye protection. It is not a corona ward, but they don't know if patients on the ward are infected or not until after they have been exposed to them. She is medically vulnerable.

@Tonyaster you have never answered any of my questions. Are you by chance Matt Hancock? Feel free to join me at work to see just what the Tory government have achieved.

In case you don't know year's of underfunding of the NHS. Years of disregard for pandemic planning and a load of rhetoric. I hope you and yours don't need us anytime soon.

Macron holding his hands up and saying “we got things wrong”. I’m no fan but he is 324678% more of a statesman than BJ.

Why has some of our expired PPE expiry date been replaced by current expiry dates?

How would you feel about caring for covid patients without adequate PPE? Would you as the RCN suggest withdraw care?

What is your opinion on PHE downgrading PPE from WHO recommendation? Also as said before the UK resus council advice downgraded. I suspect political/financial motivation.

You said that it may be HCP have contracted covid from elsewhere than the frontline but, then went on to say that HCP had probably given it to patients.

You are very inconsistent which I would expect from a Tory voter. Please re-read my previous posts.