disgusted that nurses/carers/doctors are dying for lack of PPE in 6th richest country

[wemustnotforget]

When this is all over (or maybe now) we must hold Boris and team responsible for risking so many lives.

Our health secretary said this -
“We need everyone to treat PPE like the precious resource it is,” he said on Friday. “Everyone should use the equipment they clinically need, in line with the guidelines: no more and no less.”

Nurses, porters, doctors are sacrificing their own safety and Matt Hockock has nerves to say they must not OVERUSE PPE, they dont have PPEs. Why was he chosen for this job when his background is in economics?

From wikipedia -
He studied at Exeter College, Oxford, and graduated with a first in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and went on to Christ's College, Cambridge, to earn an MPhil degree in Economics.[5][6] Hancock became a member of the Conservative Party in 1999.[7]
After university, Hancock briefly worked for his family's computer software company, before moving to London to work as an economist at the Bank of England, specialising in the housing market.

A doctor who warned Boris a month ago about risks of medical staff working without PPEs has died of corona virus at the age of 53.

In his message to the prime minister, Dr Chowdhury wrote: "Please ensure urgently PPE for each and every NHS health worker in the UK.

"Remember we may be doctors/nurses/HCAs/allied health workers who are in direct contact with patients, but we are also human beings to practice human rights like others, to live in this world disease free with our family and children.

"Otherwise in future our children will lose interest to go to medical school.
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctor-who-warned-prime-minister-about-ppe-dies-with-covid-19-11971068

And for those who are going to say I am making it political at the time of crisis, no I am not. I want this government to be accountable for their actions.

Why UK declined EU's offer of collective PPE purchase.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/no-10-boris-johnson-accused-of-putting-brexit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row

Why does everyone keep saying "we knew this was coming"?

Even the WHO didn't realise how bad this was going to be until end January.

@MogeatDog Yes, some Trusts threatened staff with disciplinary action if they spoke publicly about the lack of/unsuitable PPE.

@Clavinova I'm not sure what point you are making? Richard Horton got it wrong about Covid-19 initially but that doesn't discredit everything he has to say.

As for Matt Hancock and the rest of the govt, I thought they were doing quite well up until they changed tack re PPE and started blaming HCPs for using it up. FFS victim blaming at its very worse.

@Tonyaster see my post above. We have pandemics about every 30 years. This one was overdue. There's been a Pandemic Plan for decades. But under investment has meant preparations have proved to be woefully inadequate to protect healthcare workers.

And the WHO delay in declaring this a pandemic was about releasing World Bank funds to developing countries when it happen. It was a political and economic action, not a medical or science based decision.

@Tonyaster -because although this specific pandemic was not known about a pandemic is something the government prepares for.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213717/dh_131040.pdf

"Influenza pandemic planning in the UK has been based on an assessment of the
“reasonable worst case”. This is derived from the experience and a mathematical
analysis of influenza pandemics and seasonal influenza in the 20th century. This
suggests that, given known patterns of spread of infection, up to 50 per cent of the
population could experience symptoms of pandemic influenza during one or more
pandemic waves lasting 15 weeks, although the nature and severity of the symptoms
would vary from person to person.
2.20 For deaths, the analysis of previous influenza pandemics suggests that we should plan
for a situation in which up to 2.5% of those with symptoms would die as a result of
influenza, assuming no effective treatment was available. "

WHO say we should be in long sleeved gowns.
No FFP3 they are being held back for ICU staff which I respect as they are higher risk but ideally we all would have them.

The BMA updated their website yesterday;

What PPE should I expect to have for different clinical settings?

In all settings, when in close patient contact where you determine that there is a risk of being exposed to COVID-19, you should expect to have access to:
-surgical face mask
-disposable apron
-disposable gloves
-eye protection (if risk of contamination of eyes by splashes or droplets).

When working in higher-risk acute areas, including when carrying out aerosol generating procedures, or in areas where AGPs are being conducted you should expect to have:

-FFP3 respirator
-long sleeved disposable gown or disposable coveralls
-disposable gloves
-disposable eye protection.

My personal protective equipment is inadequate – what do I do?

"Where you reasonably believe that your protective equipment is inadequate for the setting you are in, you need to raise this urgently with your managers."

www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/covid-19/practical-guidance/covid-19-ppe-for-doctors

Clavinova

And?

Some hospitals have said that they will run out of gowns by today, so what would you suggest then?

3 nurses were shown having to wear bin bags for aprons - they all now have C19.

I'm not sure what you are proving? The recommended PPE isn't available everywhere and there are thoughts that the differing levels of recommended PPE is based more on availability than safety.

I'm not sure what point you are making? Richard Horton got it wrong about Covid-19 initially but that doesn't discredit everything he has to say.

He got it wrong initially and he has a political agenda.There are several unpleasant/rude tweets on his twitter feed about Matt Hancock ("gutlessness and sycophancy") and Boris Johnson before coronavirus - including a photo of Matt Hancock saying he looked as though he needed a rest - something definitely not right.

I'm not sure what you are proving?

"you need to raise this urgently with your managers"

Some hospitals have said that they will run out of gowns by today

Which ones?

I can't believe some of the nonsense on here about not wearing PPE for 'non-covid' patients. How the fuck do you know? Are you actually frontline? If you work in a hospital, you've got to assume that everyone is positive. The number of patients I've seen who were not even suspected covid on admission, but were picked up on imaging and later tested positive is alarming. So absolutely you'd have protect yourself and others accordingly, there's no way of knowing.

Matt Hancock is a cunt and not doing his job, yet has the audacity to point fingers at medics. No, the guidance is inadequate full stop. And nobody is overusing PPE but just trying to do their best so he can fuck off.

Well said @Sunflower20

Richard Horton is a Labour shill.

Which ones?

Which ones what?

The full, disposable gowns that you yourself just referred to. The correct gowns that BMA said are required. The NHS central suppliers have just announced that supplies of them are critically low. So, drs and nurses can raise as many official complaints as they like - what good will it do? It's disgraceful

Sunflower20

I completely agree with you.

In the times before Covid people would have been screaming at drs and nurses if they didn't change PPE between patients. All the no ties and bare below the elbows - now, your being wasteful of PPE if you change it too much? What the hell.

The government want to undermine anyone speaking up about the lack of PPE.

France is the 7th richest country of course:

"Gathered in a collective called C 19, more than 600 doctors filed a complaint Thursday, 19 March against the former Minister of Health Agnès Buzyn and Prime Minister Édouard Philippe whom they accuse of a "government lie" in their management of the coronavirus epidemic crisis." ...

"Health workers argue that the government should have stored masks, tests, and other necessary medical materials after information about the extent of the disaster appeared, but did nothing." ...

"The complaint will first be considered by a special commission that can reject it. If the court rules in favour of the doctors, Philippe and Buzyn will face a two-year prison sentence and a €30,000 fine, about $32,300."

europost.eu/en/a/view/doctors-in-france-sue-their-prime-minister-for-government-lie-27633

Which ones what?

Which hospitals have said they will run out of gowns today?

Sunflower20 I would actually prefer to die than to be treated by somebody so unprofessional and vulgar that they refer to another as a "Cunt" and not in the old MNet Atrocious Cunt way either.

I bet you are the sort of medic who tells rather than asks too, and thinks they are above please, thank you and a courteous bedside manner.

You speak volumes for your profession.

I just saw that in today's update The NHS central suppliers have just announced that supplies of them are critically low. in some places and I didn't see it as being the suppliers... I'll wait and see if it comes round again

So not low stock levels but a problem in the supply chain, again.

Well said @Sunflower20!

We are not only country running out though are we ? It’s a Global problem several others have put links showing other countries of having same issues , probably didn’t help with some of general public panic buying various masks . I’m seeing loads on facebook about company’s in UK now making visors and scrubs etc for free hopefully this will help but not sure if they will obviously meet right guidelines ?? and I do believe the government are frantically trying to get it along with every other government and due to numbers we will go through it pretty quickly

Which hospitals have said they will run out of gowns today?

I've just said - the NHS central suppliers have just announced that levels are critical.

It doesn't matter if some hospitals have enough. If any hospital doesn't have sufficient for drs and nurses to use however many they need then an unsafe situation is created. It won't just be in ITU with Covid patients will it? What happens in theatres? Fancy having surgery where the surgeon doesn't have a gown to wear or maybe is reusing the one he wore for the previous patient? Does that sound reasonable to you?

The NHS is an incredible force, but not because of the support received from the government. Imo it doesn’t have much support at all, what makes them an incredible force are the people. Imo the government can’t take much credit for having such a good health system, it’s the people within the NHS that make it amazing & currently they are being let down massively

I’m seeing loads on facebook about company’s in UK now making visors and scrubs etc for free hopefully this will help but not sure if they will obviously meet right guidelines ?? and I do believe the government are frantically trying to get it along with every other government and due to numbers we will go through it pretty quickly That's true but loads of companies in the UK have reportedly approached the GO offering to make PPE in their now disused factories and they got radio silence in return. Maybe someone just might start following up on those offers now instead of pretending everything is fine.