disgusted that nurses/carers/doctors are dying for lack of PPE in 6th richest country

[wemustnotforget]

When this is all over (or maybe now) we must hold Boris and team responsible for risking so many lives.

Our health secretary said this -
“We need everyone to treat PPE like the precious resource it is,” he said on Friday. “Everyone should use the equipment they clinically need, in line with the guidelines: no more and no less.”

Nurses, porters, doctors are sacrificing their own safety and Matt Hockock has nerves to say they must not OVERUSE PPE, they dont have PPEs. Why was he chosen for this job when his background is in economics?

From wikipedia -
He studied at Exeter College, Oxford, and graduated with a first in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and went on to Christ's College, Cambridge, to earn an MPhil degree in Economics.[5][6] Hancock became a member of the Conservative Party in 1999.[7]
After university, Hancock briefly worked for his family's computer software company, before moving to London to work as an economist at the Bank of England, specialising in the housing market.

A doctor who warned Boris a month ago about risks of medical staff working without PPEs has died of corona virus at the age of 53.

In his message to the prime minister, Dr Chowdhury wrote: "Please ensure urgently PPE for each and every NHS health worker in the UK.

"Remember we may be doctors/nurses/HCAs/allied health workers who are in direct contact with patients, but we are also human beings to practice human rights like others, to live in this world disease free with our family and children.

"Otherwise in future our children will lose interest to go to medical school.
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctor-who-warned-prime-minister-about-ppe-dies-with-covid-19-11971068

And for those who are going to say I am making it political at the time of crisis, no I am not. I want this government to be accountable for their actions.

Why UK declined EU's offer of collective PPE purchase.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/no-10-boris-johnson-accused-of-putting-brexit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row

Tonyaster what are we supposed to learn ? How are we polarised ? We see and experience and comment on that. People have made perfectly reasonable points and you just reply with flippant brush offs. You might be a Tory voting business owner (what’s new ) but that doesn’t have to mean you slavishly and unthinkingly support every policy, you are allowed to question things

It also feels as if a good amount of posters are paid by Dominic Cummings digital department.

I wish.

Yup clavinova our consultant has also developed a similar contraption Needs must.

Out of interest - if some hospital trusts have a surplus of PPE and neighbouring trusts have a shortage can't they help each other out?

Not rtft so don’t know if this has been said, but given that a pandemic of this nature was one of the highest and most likely risks worldwide - a question of when not if - why on earth did the govt or PHE not keep a stockpile of PPE. I believe that we keep a stockpile on rotation- somewhere- of bottled water. Why did no one think of this?

Similar reason to France I imagine;

"It was decided in 2011 and 2013 [in France] that there was no longer a need to keep massive stocks of masks, considering that factories could deliver quite quickly, namely in China."

Swine flu campaign 'cost France €1bn'

"2010 Health Minister Roselyne Bachelot said: "Today I'm being criticised for doing too much - but to begin with the same people were criticising me for not doing enough. I can't win."

www.connexionfrance.com/index.php/Archive/Swine-flu-campaign-cost-France-1bn

@Tonyaster in typical Tory style, not actually hearing the repeated question but interesting to note how you have picked out choice bits of my post to comment on. I cannot be bothered to ask you for a 3rd time the many questions I have posed in my posts. Will figure it out myself much like the current situation.

Yes. They don't give a shit about NHS workers. Because they are plebs and beneath them.

Equipment wise, trusts could help each other out but they are all reporting shortages in London and South. I believe the same is true nationally.
Low oxygen supplies can’t easily be shared.
Drugs can’t be moved between hospitals easily.

Body bags are the next shortage after oxygen and drugs - apart from staff and equipment to go with the ventilators.

Why can't some accept that getting ppe is challenging and looks like most countries are having this issue and the government are trying , have they got everything right prob not will there be lessons to be learnt most likely , but whoever was in charge would be in the same dilemma they cannot magic it from thin air . Every poster who has cited other countries with same issue has been ignored. But there is a worldwide shortage

Lack of PPE is different to a lack of access to PPE.

There is probably not enough PPE available but for most treating covid patients in the nhs, this isn't the issue.

The main issue is PHE changed their guidelines so that those providing ward based care to covid +ve patients aren't entitled to full PPE. We get an apron, surgical mask (waste of time) and gloves.

No visor, no ffp3 mask and no definitely not a gown. It's there in the hospital, but we aren't entitled to use it.

THIS is the main issue. All doctors, nurses, HCWs, everybody will catch it because the minute a covid patients coughs, it's in our lungs. We don't stand a chance

Instead of debating why the amount of PPE is insufficient (I don't doubt that it is but it's not the main concern here) why can't we all get onto PHE and play hell with them for changing the guidance and screwing us all over?

What is the point of a governmental advisory body specialising in protecting the health of the public if they are sending healthcare workers to their deaths by advising insufficient protection against a poorly understood, new, lethal disease?

It's unforgivable.

Yes it is unforgiveable.

We dont have enough PPE or indeed, NHS workers because government decided that they weren't important enough to invest in.

See also teachers, steel workers, energy etc.

Instead of debating why the amount of PPE is insufficient (I don't doubt that it is but it's not the main concern here) why can't we all get onto PHE and play hell with them for changing the guidance and screwing us all over?

I think it's one and the same argument though. They've only changed their guidelines because of the shortage of proper PPE. If they had sufficient supplies of gowns and N95 masks and face shields, no way would the say that aprons and surgical masks were sufficient.

They've only changed the advice to avoid publicly acknowledging that staff are unprotected.

They've only changed the advice to avoid publicly acknowledging that staff are unprotected.

Are they not following WHO advice?

"Rational use of personal protective equipment for coronavirus disease (COVID-19) and considerations during severe shortages Interim guidance 6 April 2020"

"In view of the global PPE shortage, strategies that can facilitate optimal PPE availability include minimizing the need for PPE in health care settings, ensuring rational and appropriate use of PPE, and coordinating PPE supply chain management mechanisms"...

www.who.int/publications-detail/rational-use-of-personal-protective-equipment-for-coronavirus-disease-(covid-19)-and-considerations-during-severe-shortages

@Clavinova the WHO says gowns should be worn by all who enter patients' rooms with covid. So no, we definitely aren't following their advice.

For Christ sake THERE IS A GLOBAL SHORTAGES. ITS NOT FOR SALE. YOU CANT BUY ENOUGH. ITS NOT BORIS’ FAULT.

I run a disinfectant business and I can’t get hold of any for love nor money. All our suppliers say the same. There isn’t enough available. I’m about to be going to work with no PPE today but it’s not my fault.

Are they not following WHO advice?

The advice being given isn't best practice, it's because there isn't adequate PPE. Remember the story of the man who amputated his own limb because he was trapped somewhere? He did that because it was an emergency and he had no other choice. It wasn't because hacking your own limb off with a rusty pen knife is good medical practice. Same here. Normal infection control procedure would dictate the level of PPE required but they don't have it so instead they've made up so emergency measures. That doesn't mean that the staff or other patients are being adequately protected though.

Do you apologise for things you haven't done.
I was just thinking about this. The press were pushing Dominic Raab, I think it was, at the briefing, to apologise for the lack of PPE.
But as China is the maker of this type of stuff, and they probably kept it all as they needed it themselves, so the gov couldn't get hold of it - is an apology worth anything. Not really imv.

India placed an order for 1.million PPE, a LOT of ventilators and other medical stuff just 5 days ago. WHY DIDN'T WE ORDER THEM LAST WEEK??

?????

Really? You haven't heard the repeated message that we had immediate stock and has a supply chain in place... That was 2 weeks ago.

Since then we have learned that many of those supplies came from China and, from memory:

Crates have been taken off planes in China for 'quality tests'

US officials or representatives have been taking crates by offering increased cash payments

Crates have been opened this end and found not to contain what they were supposed to.

Contents of some crates has been written off as sub standard, unusable.

It's a global lack, not just us and the same issues apply to all countries.

The NHS is an incredible force, but not because of the support received from the government. Imo it doesn’t have much support at all, what makes them an incredible force are the people. Imo the government can’t take much credit for having such a good health system, it’s the people within the NHS that make it amazing & currently they are being let down massively

^

This is untrue, the NHS is a shit show that wastes money hand over fist and is run by people who have no idea how to run it on a day to day basis let alone when something like this is happening.

India placed an order for 1.million PPE, a LOT of ventilators and other medical stuff just 5 days ago. WHY DIDN'T WE ORDER THEM LAST WEEK??

"NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Shortages of protective health gear in India are forcing some doctors to use raincoats and motorbike helmets while fighting the coronavirus, exposing the weak state of the public health system ahead of an anticipated surge in COVID-19 cases."

"In Uttar Pradesh, India’s most populous state, drivers of around 4,700 ambulances that mainly serve government hospitals went on strike on Tuesday, demanding proper safety gear and health insurance."

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-doctors/indian-doctors-fight-coronavirus-with-raincoats-helmets-amid-lack-of-equipment-idUSKBN21I0X0

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52242856

At least 30 NHS staff dead from Covid not 'less than 20' as stated inaccurately earlier in this thread.

Sad to think Matt Hancock can't even get this information correct.