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disgusted that nurses/carers/doctors are dying for lack of PPE in 6th richest country

318 replies

wemustnotforget · 12/04/2020 13:34

When this is all over (or maybe now) we must hold Boris and team responsible for risking so many lives.

Our health secretary said this -
“We need everyone to treat PPE like the precious resource it is,” he said on Friday. “Everyone should use the equipment they clinically need, in line with the guidelines: no more and no less.”

Nurses, porters, doctors are sacrificing their own safety and Matt Hockock has nerves to say they must not OVERUSE PPE, they dont have PPEs. Why was he chosen for this job when his background is in economics?

From wikipedia -
He studied at Exeter College, Oxford, and graduated with a first in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and went on to Christ's College, Cambridge, to earn an MPhil degree in Economics.[5][6] Hancock became a member of the Conservative Party in 1999.[7]
After university, Hancock briefly worked for his family's computer software company, before moving to London to work as an economist at the Bank of England, specialising in the housing market.

A doctor who warned Boris a month ago about risks of medical staff working without PPEs has died of corona virus at the age of 53.

In his message to the prime minister, Dr Chowdhury wrote: "Please ensure urgently PPE for each and every NHS health worker in the UK.

"Remember we may be doctors/nurses/HCAs/allied health workers who are in direct contact with patients, but we are also human beings to practice human rights like others, to live in this world disease free with our family and children.

"Otherwise in future our children will lose interest to go to medical school.
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctor-who-warned-prime-minister-about-ppe-dies-with-covid-19-11971068

And for those who are going to say I am making it political at the time of crisis, no I am not. I want this government to be accountable for their actions.

Why UK declined EU's offer of collective PPE purchase.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/no-10-boris-johnson-accused-of-putting-brexit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row

OP posts:
Rupertpenrysmistress · 13/04/2020 19:29

Shock @Tonayayer is a Tory voter, could not have seen that a mile off. Come work with me on the frontline and see how it is.
Also just so you know some trusts have more PPE than others because some have more cases than others!! So, some will have surplus for now. Simple fact of supply and demand.

Moonmelodies · 13/04/2020 19:35

Who are the people responsible for procurement in the NHS? Are they too getting clapped every Thursday evening?

Rupertpenrysmistress · 13/04/2020 19:37

No doubt they are NHS.

Rupertpenrysmistress · 13/04/2020 19:43

Has anyone seen the hospital in Naples which one treat covid patients? They have zero staff infection rate!! Why because they have full PPE and testing facilities
Compare to our second rate PPE and testing. No wonder our death rates are increasing.

CherryPavlova · 13/04/2020 19:44

Who is responsible for procurement? Trusts, individual GP practices and CCGs but all with very strict rules set by central government.
The rules are set and monitored by central government/civil service.

The issue with procurement is that you have to be given sufficient funding. Things like ventilators could have been supplied more efficiently and cheaply through EU procurement processes.
Instead they paid croney Dyson to turn a hoover into an untested machine. Then they tell everyone that they’re using CPAP aplenty, despite CPAP not always being the best option.

It’s like sedation drug shortages. They’ve decided other drugs that are available can, ‘be used safely’. Despite not being the drugs of choice.
They were told three weeks ago about oxygen shortages. Now it seems they’ve reset the blood oxygen levels that should be considered as within an acceptable range.
Beggars belief.

Seriouslyastounded · 13/04/2020 19:50

Billions upon billions every year...yeah, underfunded

Seriouslyastounded · 13/04/2020 20:00

Oh and Macron has just admitted that they lack PPE. Is that the Tories fault as well?

Hopeisnotastrategy · 13/04/2020 20:22

We don’t have enough PPE because, surprise, surprise, every other country in the entire world is after it. Not least the bloody Americans who are literally snatching it out of everyone else’s hands on the tarmac in China by paying three times as much in cash on the spot.

It’s shit, but not everything in life is a party political broadcast.

alloutoffucks · 13/04/2020 20:28

But it is. The government used to stockpile it for a pandemic. They stopped doing that.

Clavinova · 13/04/2020 20:30

Has anyone seen the hospital in Naples which one treat covid patients? They have zero staff infection rate!!

This hospital?

"Armed guards patrol all the corridors and there are walk-in disinfection machines that look like airport scanners."

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-italian-covid-19-hospital-where-no-medics-have-been-infected-11966344

Zippyx · 13/04/2020 20:35

Because the UK is currently all show and little substance. Our government pretends to be all over the situation - it hasn't the foggiest of clue as to what to do in the circumstances.

Behind the NHS lies an empty pit where the support of our government should be. It's just not good enough. It's disgusting, to think that in the 6th richest country in the world, we were not educated, prepared or decisive enough to support those who, quite frankly, helped bring us into the world and now help to keep us here!

Major change has been needed for years. I think it's time to work towards a more efficient healthcare system under a government who actually gives a shit.

Amanduh · 13/04/2020 20:36

700 million pieces of PPE have been distributed throughout the NHS in the past few weeks.
There are 1.5 million employees in the NHS, 460 + pieces of PPE per person.
There’s no other way of getting any more than we’re getting. It’s nothing about politics or money. We’re getting as much as we can. 700 million.
There’s not much more we can do!

Clavinova · 13/04/2020 20:37

The reason there is a lack of PPE is the government stopped stockpiling it to save money.

Article on President Macron/France;

"It was decided in 2011 and 2013 [in France] that there was no longer a need to keep massive stocks of masks, considering that factories could deliver quite quickly, namely in China."

www.politico.eu/interactive/inside-emmanuel-macron-coronavirus-war/

BurneyFanny · 13/04/2020 20:43

Yes, and he has just said on national tv that that was a mistake.

Clavinova · 13/04/2020 20:45

World Socialist Website Wink

Germany: Appalling lack of protective equipment in COVID-19 outbreak.

"The German government and the European Central Bank are pumping hundreds of billions of euros into the accounts of corporations and banks to protect them from the economic consequences of the COVID-19 pandemic. But when it comes to protecting the health of the population, government action is marked by criminal irresponsibility."

"In Germany, for example, it is still virtually impossible to be tested for the life-threatening virus unless you can prove that you have been in a crisis area or have had contact with someone who is already infected. Even people with symptoms of the disease are refused tests."

"The irresponsibility of the government is also shown by the lack of enough protective masks and other urgently needed equipment. Although doctors’ representatives and suppliers of protective clothing had warned of this weeks ago, the federal government reacted with ignorance and inaction. Now, the masks are becoming scarce in clinics, doctors’ offices and medical services—with fatal consequences for the fight against COVID-19."

"As Walter Plassmann, head of the Association of Statutory Health Insurance Physicians, explained last Tuesday, the federal government had promised to help with the procurement of protective equipment. In fact, nothing had happened. “We did not get a single mask,” news magazine Der Spiegel quotes Plassmann, who warned, “If we run out of protective equipment, we are finished.”

"Achim Theiler, the managing director of a company that produces and sells hygienic clothing, mouthguards and respirators for hospitals and doctors, told Der Spiegel that the federal Ministry of Health had been ignoring the warnings of manufacturers and suppliers for weeks."

www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/03/24/geco-m24.html

Lex234 · 13/04/2020 20:49

460 + pieces of PPE per person.

The problem with this is if we are assuming that a HCP cares for 8 patients (lets be optimistic!) and needs 4 pieces of single use PPE (gloves, apron, mask, goggles) each time and sees every patient every 2 hours in a 12 hour shift, 6 times each person...that is 8x4x6=192 pieces, 4 shifts a week...768 pieces...over a 3 week period....2304 pieces.

I realise this calculation is a huge over simplification of which workers do what, but it is not difficult to see why people are saying there is not enough. I don't know if NHS staff have enough or not. But I can see why, based on these numbers, that they may not have enough.

Tonyaster · 13/04/2020 20:53

Shock @Tonayayer is a Tory voter, could not have seen that a mile off

Amazing isn't it! Unbelievably, a lot of people who run companies that you buy things from might also be Conservative voters!

Selmaselma · 13/04/2020 20:56

Also from World Socialist Website

UK: Health workers threatened for wearing PPE and reporting danger to their lives

By Tony Robson
8 April 2020

The abject failure of the Johnson government to prepare frontline National Health Service (NHS) staff for the COVID-19 crisis has taken a sickening turn, as reports emerge of health workers facing disciplinary measures for speaking out and even for wearing their own Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) where none was provided.

The shortages of PPE were graphically illustrated when NHS workers were photographed donning makeshift aprons made from bin liners.

On March 28, the BBC reported that a GP in Ludlow in the west of England, who was called upon to help the town respond to the crisis, was barred from working at the 40-bed community hospital for wearing PPE and raising her concerns that the community hospital had been “very slow” in protecting staff and patient isolation. Shropshire Community Trust told Dr. Catherine Beanland that they were following national guidelines and that her wearing of PPE was “frightening both patients and staff.”

On April 4, the Guardian reported that a health care assistant at Hillingdon Hospital in west London resigned after her managers denied her permission to wear a protective mask she had supplied herself. Tracy Brennan had just returned from 14 days isolation because her daughter had self-isolated after developing symptoms. She was called into a meeting and instructed by managers that wearing the face mask was not Trust policy. She complied with the instruction, but later that day was coughed on by a patient while taking blood samples. She reported this to management, but they continued to deny her use of the face mask.

The Doctors Association UK (DAUK) has compiled a dossier of evidence concerning threats made by NHS management. The examples cited include:

• a GP consultant at Chase Farm hospital in London being instructed to leave work after voicing concerns;

• an intensive care specialist called into a meeting with managers and being disciplined after raising worries;

• a GP who made an appeal to her community via social media for more supplies of PPE being blocked from making any further appeals by her local Clinical Commissioning Group.

DAUK has repeatedly exposed the desperate plight faced by doctors and nurses. On April 1, in an article based on its own interviews and the DAUK, the Guardian noted that NHS staff were making improvised masks out of snorkels, buying protective kit from hardware stores and using school science goggles to protect themselves. One consultant anaesthetist working in south-east England reported buying 60 snorkels to adapt into respirator masks.

Samantha Batt-Rawden, president of DAUK, said, “Many doctors have told us they have also had to buy their own respirator masks from hardware stores, while others have reached out to schools and laboratories for protective glasses. Some have approached 3D printing companies to have batches of visors made.”

Less than a week later, Batt-Rawden reported doctors being “bullied and shamed,” explaining, “Lack of personal protective equipment continues to be a critical issue. It is heartbreaking to hear that some staff have been told to simply ‘hold their breath’ due to lack of masks. … Doctors are dying. Nurses are dying. We are devastated, and can no longer stand by and watch as more dedicated colleagues lose their life.”

The threats to health workers have been particularly directed at any use of social media platforms such as Twitter and Instagram. Accident & Emergency staff at Southend hospital were warned via a memo on March 26 that they could face disciplinary action if they aired their concerns about PPE publicly on social media.

Medics subsequently warned that they would be forced to reduce treatment to coronavirus patients to a bare minimum by April 1 unless the availability of PPE improved. In letter sent to CEO Clare Panniker, they report that PPE is being “rationed,” that “there is limited stock” and what is available is being “locked away from staff and not accessible” and staff are “petrified” over the working conditions.

Support the World Socialist Web Site and its coverage of the coronavirus pandemic.
Donate today.
To date, the figures of COVID-19-related deaths in the UK do not specify the number of doctors and nurses who have died as a result of the virus. They also exclude all those who have died outside of hospital. This methodology results in an underestimation of the real numbers of lives claimed by the disease, an issue which has not been contested within the mainstream media.

But the lives of at least 13 doctors and nurses have been taken by COVID-19 in the UK. The youngest, John Alagos, was just 23, a nurse at Watford General Hospital. He collapsed and died after completing a 12-hour shift where he was treating COVID-19 patients. His mother, Gina Gustilo, told the Telegraph that he had become ill during the shift but was not allowed to go home because of staff shortages. She also said that her son had not been wearing the right PPE.

These outrages and the threats levelled against health workers exposing them are the inevitable result of government dissembling, abetted by the mainstream media, which is aimed at concealing the impact of official criminal negligence.

Ever since the Johnson government belatedly announced its guidelines for social distancing, the media spotlight has focused almost exclusively on berating sections of the general public for their failure to comply, which is identified as the sole threat of the NHS being overwhelmed by the virus.

This is propaganda on a truly Orwellian scale. The British ruling class is well aware of the fact that the NHS is one of the few institutions in the country which commands popular respect, because it is identified with the principle that access to health and the preservation of life should not be determined by ability to pay. But its attempts to use the NHS as a fig leaf for its calls for national unity and shared sacrifice are deeply cynical. Both Labour and Conservative governments have worked to dismantle the NHS.

The impact of cuts and privatisation on critical infrastructure has been compounded by the Johnson government’s “herd immunity policy,” which declared that it was neither possible nor desirable to contain the virus. Even now, the government’s social distancing policy has exempted corporations performing supposedly non-essential work and failing to ensure safety practices and those that are considered essential but have failed to take adequate steps to protect their workforce.

The idea that the NHS stands above politics or the class divisions wracking society is being completely refuted. NHS staff are being exposed to unnecessary levels of risk and forced to work in conditions where their lives could be taken as a result. This was evidenced by the recent announcement by leading UK specialist, Farewill, that it was offering free wills to NHS staff after it reported receiving a 12-fold increase in enquiries from NHS staff over the last few weeks. NHS workers are fully aware of the risks they face, given that fatalities among doctors and nurses in Italy, one of the initial epicentres of the virus, has surpassed 100.

www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/08/vict-a08.html

Tonyaster · 13/04/2020 20:58

Rupertpenrysmistress you said you had questions to ask me about PPE. Don't you want to ask me now that you know I voted Conservative? Sad

Hermanhessescat · 13/04/2020 21:06

What’s the point. You just can’t stomach the government being challenged. They’ve slipped up badly in many respects but you can’t acknowledge it. It’s like Brexit everyone’s so polarised and can’t see the others point of view

Selmaselma · 13/04/2020 21:14

Agreed, Hermanhessescat. Pretty scary to watch from the outside (I am not in the UK). It also feels as if a good amount of posters are paid by Dominic Cummings digital department.

Tonyaster · 13/04/2020 21:18

Oh, well it's a shame if you are so politically polarised that you can't learn. But perhaps you don't really want to know anything. That's fine (and very typically Mumsnet). Stay safe.

Gin4thewin · 13/04/2020 21:19

A friend of the family works in ICU, the nurses and Drs arent drinking because if they need the toilet, all the PPE theyre wearing has to get binned and all new put on and they dont want to waste whats already in short supply so are dehydrating themselves

Clavinova · 13/04/2020 21:19

The youngest, John Alagos, was just 23

This would be terrible if true and very poor judgment on behalf of hospital staff if the young man had complained of a high temperature throughout the night;

"His mother, Gina Gustilo, 50, told the newspaper he complained of suffering a headache and high temperature throughout his night shift."

Although it doesn't sound as if the cause of death has been established yet;

The cause of Mr Alagos' death is unknown, however Ms Gustilo told the BBC that the family are waiting to hear if he had tested positive for Covid-19.

www.harrowtimes.co.uk/watfordnews/18359327.nurse-treating-coronavirus-patients-watford-general-hospital-dies/

Clavinova · 13/04/2020 21:27

One consultant anaesthetist working in south-east England reported buying 60 snorkels to adapt into respirator masks.

"When Hamburg dentist Norman von Sternberg ran out of face masks in late February, it looked as if he would have to close his practice. The market for masks has been swept clean. Frustrated, Sternberg got creative: He borrowed a mask made of black rubber, with attachable filters to keep out gases and vapors, from a friend who paints cars. He equipped his assistant with a snorkel mask.This, at least, allowed him to continue treating patients with emergencies."

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