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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I should push and push council to accommodate roughsleeping DS at this time? Long, sorry.

79 replies

Molly175 · 11/04/2020 11:26

DS1, mental health diagnosis (sczophrenia, flat effects) and formerly sectioned. Behaviour pattern includes going off, technically missing (police involved). Often. MH team know it's part of his condition. Rarely on meds, needle phobic and finds a way of taking them out of mouth when back turned. Meds is DH's responsibility. MH carers not seeing DS now because of Covid.

Long history of disappearing for several years at a time. Now back in area, and since hospital (self discharge once section lifted), we've scoped him up and funded his accommodation in hotels etc. Back on the street and he wouldn't survive. Physically ill - severely underweight, fungal infection, walks with difficulty, narcolepsy.

Long story short - was accommodated because of local authority Covid directive. But he twice went off and second time, a day or so ago, lost his room. Another resident told building manager that DS had told him he didn't want to be there and then went off in a car. Manager and council assumed he'd left, aided by us. DS says he didn't say this, he is very reserved, and we certainly didn't drive him off. So decision made on heresay evidence.

Next few days were spent (again) liaising with police to find him. Turned up yesterday - went to hospital - given overnight sofa but told that there aren't any beds.

Huge efforts to get another MH assessment yesterday. Went round in circles, hence visit to hospital where they were very concerned but hands tied because of the bed situation.

Shelter say directive doesn't let councils 'punish' behaviour this way.

Now, DS is lying in a sleeping bag, in a car park. People want to help and report this. With the senior housing officer whose decision this was, we've drawn a blank. He's obdurate. Have written to a Councillor who wants to know more but, I fear, all roads will lead to this officer who won't budge. He, over years, has not understood how DS's MH means that he can't be treated like someone who is bloody minded or has real agency.

No access to sanitation, to eating property - and no sign that things will change, certainly over the long w/end. I'm trying to find someone for him but affordable (and I'm in debt) places are few and far between because of lockdown. And he shouldn't travel anymore.

DS can't live here yet. Years ago his behavour impacted horribly on younger ones. We sought help but it was so patchy and lacking.

AIBU for thinking that DH and I should push this as much as can rather than sit back, let DS ride out the pandemic in a sleeping bag (if he makes it) or try, as we have so often in the past, to find somewhere, not too pricey, that will take him? Then again, he shouldn't travel. He's a risk to himself and others. I'm clear about that. I'm at my wit's end. Genuine apologies for length.

OP posts:
Thisismytimetoshine · 11/04/2020 11:31

I presume there's a reason he can't come home?

Shamoo · 11/04/2020 11:34

How very very tough for you all. I have no advice but completely agree that he should be housed. It’s very stressful and I wish you luck. Any hope with your local MP as opposed to councillor, or social media to raise noise?

Poorpigletsrevenge · 11/04/2020 11:35

I’m sorry for your situation and totally understand why he can’t come home.

Some suggestions, apologies if you’ve already thought of them.

Have you tried your local MP? They can help with making the council and the officer accountable.

Office must have a boss or head of department. Go above them and be a pain with lots of contact and emails.

Can you get a statement form a psychiatrist that details expected behaviours form you son, so it can be used to help the officer understand?

I wish you the best of luck, what a horrible situation.

BringMeSunshineInMyLife · 11/04/2020 11:37

All rough sleepers should have been housed.

Here I have been asked to approach any on the street and get their number and call a line- someone then comes out ( I live in a town and walk my dog each night so know the regulars/shelters)

So contact one of the local shelters or one of the local covid 19 help groups.

Splitsunrise · 11/04/2020 11:38

Agree I would forward to leader of local council and local MP

PegasusReturns · 11/04/2020 11:39

Who old are your younger children now? Time frames are confusing but It sounds like they may be young adults in which case having him home might be a short term emergency situation

Incrediblytired · 11/04/2020 11:39

I work with a mental health homeless team - there should be a housing option identified for him in his locality so yes - push it. It’s not optional for the council to offer him somewhere to live, they have to.

Saladaysior · 11/04/2020 11:44

How awful for you.
Am I right in thinking you feel he should be sectioned right now?
It sounds impossible for anything else to happen really... he was housed in line with the COVID regulations but has intentionally left and I assume can’t be forced to do anything against his will unless sectioned?

The rough sleeping is obviously a real concern, not just for him but for others because he’s in a public place.

I really feel for you. Have you tried your MP?

slipperywhensparticus · 11/04/2020 11:47

I think you should push it as far as you can but ultimately if he wont take his meds there will be little you can do

I'm so sorry

KrakowDawn · 11/04/2020 11:49

What a terribly tough situation for you all Thanks

Even if you find him a place, and pay for it, he's not going to stay there, is he?
What type of area are you in? Are there safeish places he can sleep out? Could he come by each day for food/meds?

You're right when you say he has no agency, and is not responsible for these "choices" he's making; he does need help.

ProfYaffle · 11/04/2020 11:50

Going to the Councillor is a good idea. I work in a Local Authority, the Councillor will be able to put pressure on the officers to explain what they've done and re-visit the decision if required.

RandomUser3049 · 11/04/2020 12:00

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

FortunesFave · 11/04/2020 12:02

ThisIsMyTimeToShine Did you not bother to read the whole post then?

OP says her son's behaviour impacted her other children badly. It's a common problem for those who have children with MH difficulties.

Of course OP would have him at home but she has to think of her other children too.

I watched my Aunt go through hell with my cousin. She could not have my cousin at home due to her destructive and at times, frightening behaviour.

PinkyU · 11/04/2020 12:12

Is your DS a physical risk to your other children?

How old are your other children now?

Honestly I think that if (and only if) there was no physical (or an easily managed) risk to you and your other children then I’d go and get him and bring him home.

He is physically ill, at risk of contacting a potentially fatal virus, and is sleeping on the streets. It’s for a limited period of time, prepare yourself and your other children mentally and emotionally for managing your DS’s needs and behaviour for a short period of time.

I know it’s easy for me to say from afar, but he could die in this situation.

Hoarder123 · 11/04/2020 12:18

How awful for you all. Maybe not possible and certainly not ideal, but do you have a garage or shed that he could stay in? That would keep him out of the way of your younger children whilst you being able to keep an eye on him and ensuring he gets fed?

My heart goes out to you and your family. You shouldn’t have to go through this. Unfortunately at the moment there is so much going on that your son isn’t the priority he maybe should be, with the local authorities. 💐

Sargass0 · 11/04/2020 12:19

Regardless of the Covid protocol, local authorities have certain statutory duties to your son anyway.

What decision has the local authority actually made? Has your son been given any decision letters? (this could be very relevant in how you pursue this)

It is possible to legally challenge any unlawful decisions the LA make under Part 7 of the Housing Act 1996 and you can get legal help to do that.
However any legal advisor would need instructions from your son to do this (unless you have authority to act on his behalf)

It depends on the decision made as to what legal help you need.

For instance a local authority only has a duty to offer interim accommodation in your son's case. If this is lost they don't have a duty to offer anything else but may still go on to make a decision that they owe him the full housing duty.

But they certainly should be offering alternative accommodation due to Covid at this time.

It appears that the housing officer in your son's case is strictly adhering to the law rather than allowing flexibility especially as your son disputes what they have said regarding leaving the accommodation and this should be challenged.

Again it will depend on what actual decision is reached as to whether a legal advisor can help you challenge this (s202 review) or whether you would need to engage a solicitor and request a judicial review.

Depending on your area I could possibly recommend where you can get help to do this or you could contact Civil Legal Advice on 0345 345 4345 and they should be able to advise you further.

This is only very brief advice as there is lots more info needed to fully but sounds as though the LA are not acting as they should.

Poppi89 · 11/04/2020 12:19

If they gave him somewhere to stay surely he will just go off again?

Luckypoppy · 11/04/2020 12:20

Even a tent or garage or shed at your house has to be preferable to this? It could at least enable you to keep an eye on him. Have you room for that?

I understand this may not be possible. Maybe start to threaten legal action if this is not dealt with and name the person standing in the way. They definitely should not have taken his room away on hearsay.

HollowTalk · 11/04/2020 12:21

If the OP could have him at home then she would, surely?! Do you think such a simplistic answer hasn't been considered?

Poppi89 · 11/04/2020 12:24

When he went off the second time how long was it for?

You can't assume someone has gone forever if he had only gone to the shops, surely he would have to sign something or they would wait a few days before removing his stuff.

user1471565182 · 11/04/2020 12:27

This is the extremely difficult to deal with section of homeless people that nobody ever seems to think about. Some people cant just be housed in normal flats and then expected to act like normal tenants. There needs to be houses given with no conditions attached and with support at hand.

Sorry, I know you're looking for practical advice OP but Ive seen a lot of this atm and worry it'll be used as ammunition against these people in the future.

Has he got a tent at the very least he can use potentially? would he use one? I know a lot of people like your son and they can be extremely resourceful, with a decent tent in a safish area im sure hed be much better off than a car park.

SoloSolow · 11/04/2020 12:30

To those of you saying bring him home. If the OP did this, social services, mental health services etc, will walk away and leave it all for the OP to deal with. Then it will be a nightmare, for her her to get the agencies to support her DS into getting help and long term supported housing.

The OP has to stand firm and not bring him back home, no matter how heartbreaking it is for them to see their DS like this.

Remember they have not abandoned him. They are using all the money they have and are doing all they reasonably can.

PinkyU · 11/04/2020 12:44

But @solo their DS is currently not receiving support, so where he is living will make no difference to his access to support.

All bets are off in this crisis situation (unless there is a section order in place).

Livelovebehappy · 11/04/2020 12:48

There is no solution to this unfortunately. He’s not taking his meds, he gets given accommodation then says he doesnt want it and leaves, so of course the authorities are going to give it to some other person in desperate need - they won’t have the luxury of keeping the place for him in the event he returns at some point. Of course the council could give him accommodation, but he will again abandon the place - it’s just a vicious circle. Sounds like the only option is that he is sectioned for his own safety and gets help - I’m no MH expert, but assume that is an option? . No-one is at fault here, but it sounds like an awful situation to be in OP.

Lovemusic33 · 11/04/2020 13:08

What a hard situation. I do feel for you as I have been in a similar situation years ago with my step son (schizophrenic) but obviously with out the covid19 going on. I also work in mental health caring for people with schizophrenia (off at the moment).

I think the problem is if he is giving accommodation he is not likely to stay there, if he stays with you he is likely not to stay in? He’s not likely to be sectioned unless he’s a harm to himself or others and even then it often take a incident to happen before they will section. He really needs to concentrate on taking his medication, missing some or not taking it at all is only going to make things worse. I find the best option for people that struggle with meds is the depot injection but if he has a fear of needles this could be tricky.

I think all you can do is hope he stays close by and try and encourage him to take his medication, there’s not much else you can do. I know you must be worried that he will either become more unwell or disappear but you can’t control what he does as he’s an adult.