To think I should push and push council to accommodate roughsleeping DS at this time? Long, sorry.

[Molly175]

DS1, mental health diagnosis (sczophrenia, flat effects) and formerly sectioned. Behaviour pattern includes going off, technically missing (police involved). Often. MH team know it's part of his condition. Rarely on meds, needle phobic and finds a way of taking them out of mouth when back turned. Meds is DH's responsibility. MH carers not seeing DS now because of Covid.

Long history of disappearing for several years at a time. Now back in area, and since hospital (self discharge once section lifted), we've scoped him up and funded his accommodation in hotels etc. Back on the street and he wouldn't survive. Physically ill - severely underweight, fungal infection, walks with difficulty, narcolepsy.

Long story short - was accommodated because of local authority Covid directive. But he twice went off and second time, a day or so ago, lost his room. Another resident told building manager that DS had told him he didn't want to be there and then went off in a car. Manager and council assumed he'd left, aided by us. DS says he didn't say this, he is very reserved, and we certainly didn't drive him off. So decision made on heresay evidence.

Next few days were spent (again) liaising with police to find him. Turned up yesterday - went to hospital - given overnight sofa but told that there aren't any beds.

Huge efforts to get another MH assessment yesterday. Went round in circles, hence visit to hospital where they were very concerned but hands tied because of the bed situation.

Shelter say directive doesn't let councils 'punish' behaviour this way.

Now, DS is lying in a sleeping bag, in a car park. People want to help and report this. With the senior housing officer whose decision this was, we've drawn a blank. He's obdurate. Have written to a Councillor who wants to know more but, I fear, all roads will lead to this officer who won't budge. He, over years, has not understood how DS's MH means that he can't be treated like someone who is bloody minded or has real agency.

No access to sanitation, to eating property - and no sign that things will change, certainly over the long w/end. I'm trying to find someone for him but affordable (and I'm in debt) places are few and far between because of lockdown. And he shouldn't travel anymore.

DS can't live here yet. Years ago his behavour impacted horribly on younger ones. We sought help but it was so patchy and lacking.

AIBU for thinking that DH and I should push this as much as can rather than sit back, let DS ride out the pandemic in a sleeping bag (if he makes it) or try, as we have so often in the past, to find somewhere, not too pricey, that will take him? Then again, he shouldn't travel. He's a risk to himself and others. I'm clear about that. I'm at my wit's end. Genuine apologies for length.

I agree with @livelovebehappy

OP which area are you in our sounds like he needs complex needs provision or a scheme called 'housing first' which accommodates those who've struggled with other routes for a variety of reasons, the accommodation is not conditional on behaviour or any type of engagement with services, he would get a keyworker though who just wouldn't give up on him and would support when they can but not drop him because he's not able to engage.

Some areas also have what is known as green light housing for those individuals who are high end complex needs and known to a number of green light services

This must be really frustrating for you, but as he is an adult I expect that your ability to act for him is very limited.

Is he more stable if he maintains his medication?

@Livelovebehappy that’s my feeling too.

It’s very easy to assume ‘someone’ must be at fault but there are some situations which are just nigh on impossible. He is refusing to take his meds, and has left the accommodation which the council provided. Understandably they can’t simply keep a room free in case he decides to return- besides which, they can hardly in the current circumstances encourage a situation where people are wandering in and out of the accommodation provided, going into public areas and then in and out of a building which is housing other vulnerable people. That puts multiple people at risk.

It honestly sounds as though it’s either a case of OP could try to offer him a shed/ tent on her property where he’d be safer and contained. Or try to get him sectioned. I can’t see any other option.

It’s all very well to say the council have a duty, but they have provided accommodation which he then left. To the poster who suggested accommodation should be on a totally flexible ‘no strings’ basis because it’s difficult for people to cope otherwise- what would such accommodation actually look like? Given the current circumstances and risks I’m astonished that anyone can think it’s acceptable for the council to House already vulnerable people in a situation where they can come and go as they please, potentially bringing the virus into a shared building

I think you need to draw a sit in toon between what the council should be doing (must do) and what they are actually doing.

Of course they have obligations but they are not fulfilling them. So what’s the option? It’s not ideal for anyone but if his life is at risk and the OP seems to think it is, the having him at home whilst not ideal might be the only option.

Yes keep pushing, but it sounds like it is the lack of support for his mental health, more than the lack of housing that is the main issue. The housing is there, but his mental health means that he won't/can't use it. Maybe push from that angle.

OP I am so sorry you are in this spiral. You are getting a lot of replies from people who do not understand that no you can't just bring him home and that no, he won't be sectioned.
Follow up those about getting help to get him a place. Maybe contact MIND for help and advice? And yes push for him to be housed.

It’s all very well to say the council have a duty, but they have provided accommodation which he then left
This. He made himself intentionally homeless by walking out of the accommodation offered.

This is a MH issue, he needs to be sectioned if he’s not taking his meds. Good luck finding a MH space though.

Just wanted to say op that this must be terribly terribly hard for you and I wish you well. You are right it to have him home x

His best option by far is to get a law centre/ solicitors’s office with a housing legal aid contract to act for him.

In brief however, they’re treating your son as having lost accommodation provided pursuant to s.188(1) of the Housing Act 1996 (Part 7), I.e. pending determination of a homeless application. Those provided with accommodation under this section can lose the right to be offered further accommodation if they don’t stay at the place made available for them.

It seems very clear however that this was a purely COVID- related placement and, as Shelter have advised, his failure to stay there has no consequence- the LA must offer him somewhere else.

I would ask the LA for evidence that they’ve taken a homeless application by providing a copy of his signed application firm. They almost certainly won’t be able to, and so will have no leg to stand on in they try and argue that it was a s.188(1) placement.

Agree with LochJess

How patronising of one poster to suggest some of us ‘don’t understand.’ We understand only too well: that this is a far more complex issue than can be resolved with a simple sound bite of ‘the council must provide housing.’ They have. They cannot physically force him to remain in it. They also have a duty of care to other people rehoused in a shared building. Can you imagine if someone was allowed to come in and out, leaving overnight sometimes, into a facility with shared kitchen and communal spaces? A lot of homeless people currently being housed by the council are already vulnerable with health conditions and addictions... just imagine the virus running rife

This is not about housing, it’s about his mental health and it sounds like he needs to be sectioned for his own and others’ safety

Sounds like the only option is that he is sectioned for his own safety and gets help - I’m no MH expert, but assume that is an option?

The OP has stated quite clearly that the hospital would not give him a bed.

I'm sorry OP, I have seen a relative go through exactly the same self-destructive cycle without proper mental health care and losing a hostel place because of her behaviour. Thankfully she is behaving well right now and with her grandparents.

I would knock on every door you can right now, including your MP.

If he got a bed would he accept it and stay there?

You could push the council to give him individual housing maybe? He's a risk to everyone in shared accommodate so I can see why they are not keen to have him in that.

I have a brother in a hostel for people with addiction and my issues so I get how it is.

People are only sectioned in extreme circumstances. Whatever you might think, this is not extreme circumstances. This is what serious mental illness looks like.

LochJessMonster

"He made himself intentionally homeless by walking out of the accommodation offered"

This is not true. I suggest that if you do not know housing law then don't comment. Intentionality is not relevant at this stage.

OP you can get some help with this.

scott2609 is correct hence why I was asking what decision they have made and is it writing..?

If you need more specific advice - will be happy to try and help.

He sounds like hard work for you to keep at home so can imagine he is more difficult for the council. If it seems he's abandoned a bed, then they're going to give it to another in need. I'm sorry for what you're going through. I wouldn't blame the council. It is what it is.

Given the current circumstances and risks I’m astonished that anyone can think it’s acceptable for the council to House already vulnerable people in a situation where they can come and go as they please, potentially bringing the virus into a shared building

The people are not in prison and I'm sure they have the right to exercise and shopping like everyone else.

@Gingerkittykat why are you putting a completely different spin on my comment?

I wasn’t suggesting people who are temporarily housed shouldn’t be allowed to do daily exercise and essential shopping. You’re being utterly ridiculous.

My point was that someone who is coming and going as they please, staying out overnight at times, is clearly going to be a risk to other residents of the building.

This isn’t about apportioning blame. If the adult concerned isn’t responsible for his actions then he can’t be held accountable for wandering off and staying god knows where. But neither should be be causing a risk to others because the council has a duty of care to them too

Their seems to be a lot of people who are saying OP should bring him home.

She cannot do this and has stated this.I have a friend who's a wonderful ,kind,caring&loving mum who'd do anything for their children but nearly lost her younger children and actually would have done if a social services had had their way due to her eldest's Mental health issues.

The social services would have sooner placed the younger ones in foster care than help the eldest one seek treatment and alternative accommodation.Luckily my friend stood her ground and her son was placed into sheltered accommodation to remove him from the home to protect the younger ones.

@popsydoodle4444 it may be the only option if OP wants him off the street.

Accessing MH support is difficult at the best of times. Now it’s near impossible. If his life is in imminent danger then something has to give.

OP it’s awful I’m sorry

He needs to be sectioned, there’s only so much the council can do when they’re trying to look after so many people.

But he won't be sectioned. That is not how sectioning works.

Many thanks, all, for your thoughtful responses. I'm going to go through them again, doubly carefully, soon.

DS, sadly, can't live at home just now. He walked out one day but not before his siblings had had some very difficult years living under the same roof as him. And, soon after he left, he apparently told a psychiatrist that he had intentions to harm me. He was brought up so lovingly, and despite everything, I miss him terribly. I'd like nothing better than to see him in a comfortable bed, eating good food, warm, sheltered, cared for. One day - I want this so much.

We've drawn a blank today. The senior mental health trust executives to whom we've written (we know them as we've been very engaged carers) are simply saying that they are sorry but there's nothing they can do. The Council leader passed on an email to a senior housing official (not from housing) who said that it was essential that MH services were interacting with him now.

But this isn't happening. His practitioner rarely sees him (and of course Covid may make that harder), he doesn't take his meds and he doesn't engage in any therapy. I think they see him as a sad, difficult case that they'd rather not be working with, to be quite frank. DS is usually in a state of utter confusion and he is very weak. We think he should be in hospital (yesterday's hospital visit was simply to talk to nurses - they didn't have the capacity to do a full MH assessment). We've asked where we go for but are none the wiser.

I agree with those of you who say that this is a MH issue above all. Trouble is, his MH needs are not being dealt with (I'd love to say otherwise). He should be in supported housing. But what a battle we've had for that to be recognised. Any housing he's had has been left to chance. The Council say their housing is inappropriate for him. The MH Services say that they've relied on the Council. So, he's caught between the two, and now, again, he's homeless.

DH has gone out to see him now - I guess he'll find him lying down in the car park. No access to sanitation facilities. I don't know what to do.

BTW, he was temporarily given a room, when lockdown started, under the Housing Act Part V11 because he was eligible for 'assistance, homeless and in priority need'. He's not had a letter terminating this agreement. It happened, quite literally, on the say so of another resident. Of course, DS should not have left but this is really something outside his control, until and unless he's treated appropriately.

It sounds an awful situation, I feel for you.
I assume as far as the room goes, it’s not so much a case of the agreement having been terminated as the agreement having been breached? Because as has been said by myself and others, presumably part of the conditions under the covid regs are that the residents do need to use the rooms and can’t disappear over night, sleep rough and then come back into the building.

This definitely seems like a health service issue, not the council.