Why are teachers not teaching live lessons online

[Shouldistayorshouldimove]

This is not a teacher bashing thread.

Talking online with another mum in my son’s class today, both ourDCs are in p1 (Scotland). She is outraged that teachers next term will be posting work online rather than actually teaching using Zoom etc. Her argument is that universities are doing it so why aren’t teachers? And how is she supposed to work from home and educate her children?

Personally I don’t think teaching a bunch of 5 year olds a live lesson using Zoom is going to be all that effective and would probably require quite a lot of supervision anyway. AIBU to think that tasks posted online are quite sufficient given the circumstances? So as not to drip feed, I am also working from home with 2DCs.

Lipz- I hear lots of negative things about Zoom in the general press. If it's not secure, I don't really think schools should be using it.

I don't need my kids teachers to do live lessons but I'm worrying a little about how different each school's support seems to be because my kids are doing exams next year and I don't want them disadvantaged. A little every day adds up to a lot over the period of a term. If

because of the simple license issue

Will the BBC be checking licences on this?

Please explain why a teacher recording their lesson so kids can be taught not in real time and in term time is such a hugely unreasonable suggestion?

• some teachers are ill
• some teachers are dealing with illness in family members
• some teachers are grieving for lost family members
• safeguarding issues for teachers and their children (think abusive ex getting hold of material online which clearly shows where his ex is working, for example)
• most schools are managing their staffing situation (think staff needing to be shielded or staff with parents and children needing to be shielded) as best they can to care for key worker children. Meaning many staff are actually working all day anyway.
• lack of speedy internet in some areas (particularly rural) rendering the job all the more difficult
• lack of personal IT equipment to be able to successfully record videos
• some teachers have responsibilities that go out with their job responsibilities such as caring for elderly relatives or children with disabilities who are usually supported by childcare that is no longer available or carers who are no longer available
• some teachers have children at home who won't let them teach to camera for 6 hours a day
• some head teachers have taken the view that their staffing make-up is such that putting this demand on their teachers would be unreasonable (particularly given what the unions have suggested is reasonable)
• some headteachers have looked carefully at their FSM/PP figures and decided that it is likely too many children would not be able to access the work that teachers put in therefore what is the point?
• some headteachers consider that the marking involved in doing online learning is already unreasonable and expecting 6 hours of teaching/6 hours videoing on top is way too much
• some teachers and headteachers are fully aware that good teaching involves a certain amount of thinking on your feet and adjusting the lesson as you go along, responding to need at the time. Therefore pointless to have children watch something they can't interact with 'cos kids will switch off the minute they don't get an answer to their question
• some teachers and headteachers have received endless complaints regarding their too high expectations for home learning that adding expectations of viewing and understanding videos would mean managing even more questions and queries than they are currently
• some teachers and headteachers know that they plan re-actively according to the class progress the previous day so if we are all accessing information and lessons at a different pace, how is any meaningful learning actually going to take place?
• some teachers and headteachers taking the view that if all their children are in the same place when we eventually go back to school, that will be easier to manage than 30 kids in a class in different places, some of whom will have been learning with educated and capable parents 6 hours a day and some who will have done nothing (and every shade in between) and all of whom are in very different places (more so than usual).
• and likely a mixture of the above in all cases.

It is great that some schools are doing this. My school's expectation is some live lesson input (but there are no stipulations for this and is very much seen as a 'you can do it where it works for you and where you think it will enhance learning but don't waste your time just to be seen doing it') and I will go with that as best I can but I can see why some schools have just thrown in the towel and not bothered. We can't win with it. Too much for some. Not enough for others.

Well, they are chucking content on iPlayer and license is needed. Content will also be shown on their tv channels. This is an addition to the new stuff they are creating for Bitesize. I posted the link earlier linking directly to how it's worded.

It's looking like this great saviour some have been banking on to start something that is currently defunct, is also going to come with issues that simply cannot be swept away no matter how much people would love to hang on to the current ex curriculum.

Well, they are chucking content on iPlayer and license is needed

You don’t need a licence to access the content or the TV channels. As in technically.

You are supposed to have one and can be (currently) prosecuted if found accessing without one, but will they do this for accessing education content?

Oh for fucksake. Not another what the fuck are teachers doing all motherfucking day. I’m not even a teacher or related to one but getting so fucking pissed off with these posts. This isn’t a normal thing happening just now. Life can’t just carry on as normal . Can’t believe the amount of folk that think teachers should be providing the usual service (want them to come round and wipe your weans arse for them as well)

Jeezey peeps

some teachers have children at home who won't let them teach to camera for 6 hours a day
some headteachers consider that the marking involved in doing online learning is already unreasonable and expecting 6 hours of teaching/6 hours videoing on top is way too much

Parents of primary school aged kids would probably be happy with 2 hours of lessons a day. Secondary school 3 or 4 hours a day.

DS2 says one of his teachers hasn't turned the camera on for her online lessons - he can only hear her voice - which is fine.

Hence exams cancelled until further notice

This is the actual wording from the Department for Education:

Primary assessments, including SATs, and exams including GCSEs, AS levels and A levels, will not go ahead this summer. The exam regulator, Ofqual, and exam boards, will work with teachers to provide grades to students whose exams for GCSEs, AS and A levels have been cancelled this summer.

"This summer" is repeated twice. That is a very different thing to "until further notice".

And let's be honest, regardless of which side we are on, it's very clear to see the current ex-curriculum and the educational system needed a massive overhaul anyway.

What an absolutely fantastic opportunity to say bye to that curriculum, just like we have previously done for decades. Only this time it really will be a fresh start for everyone.

Everyone starts the first day new. Look at the chaos it caused when things were suddenly changed the last time and the time before and was until it was finally closed down for good.

Some schools have gone against advice they have made an impossible situation a lot worse, and this has been spurred for some strange reason by parents.

That is what we should be asking for. Complete fresh material from the first day that is slightly adjusted to cater for those near 'normal' exam time.

Plus by changing everything it actually gives some fantastic ideas that those in education suggest but constantly ignored. It gives us the chances to actually implement some of the amazing systems currently used around the globe both in and out of the classroom. We should be embracing change, I know it's scary. But what some of you are wanting to retain simply won't work, and this includes your own child.

If we go into full lockdown, chances are teaching staff will be furloughed at best. Then what? Who is going to teach your child a defunct curriculum?

Oh for fucksake. Not another what the fuck are teachers doing all motherfucking day. I’m not even a teacher or related to one but getting so fucking pissed off with these posts. This isn’t a normal thing happening just now. Life can’t just carry on as normal . Can’t believe the amount of folk that think teachers should be providing the usual service (want them to come round and wipe your weans arse for them as well)

This. Don’t give them any ideas lol some of this lot might expect that too

Parents that I have spoken to are happy with what has been provided, which is links and resources, eg videos on bbc/ white rose no recordings by teachers. They are struggling to manage and like the no pressure approach. They also appreciate the teachers going in to support key workers and understand that we are all trying to work and help our children. No sure you can presume to suggest what all parents would be happy with

And if you’re trying to work from home with kids at home then employers need to get a fucking grip and understand the situation. We can’t do it all.

@spanieleyes I love your post! I'd happily be furloughed too cos it seems however much we do it's never enough! At my school we've made the distinct decision not to live stream lessons as we are an infant school and we reckon by prerecording lessons parents can watch them when it suits them as they will have to be part of the learning process. And they can then go back to the lessons as well, as we all know children don't always understand first time round (second third or fourth 😂). Or pause the lesson cos again, we all know 4 year olds can't focus for long.
I am sick of the teacher bashing and would like to remind other posters that we are also taking risks looking after key worker children - with no PPE. In my case, during the holidays along side learning new IT platforms for delivering remote learning albeit prerecorded.

Noble, come on it's the Beeb, they won't relax the license thing simply because they know that is it for them. They will go bust or require a huge cash injection. People will refuse to get one when they realise they might not actually legally need one to begin with. Never mind the ones that after a couple of months of not paying for it, they start asking why and never pay again.

Plus it wouldn't surprise me if somehow certain info about address will be "accidentally" leaked and of course, cross-referenced. Caught bang to rights because you have children who would normally be in school.

Fuck just thought of that. A criminal record for wanting your child to have some type of level playing field but are broke to afford a license.

Although at the moment there are a few small temporary changes, it is clear these will be reviewed and when. There's nothing I don't think currently in law that could stop the dodgy bastards coming after someone retrospectively and it is up to them to provide proof. This really needs some proper clarification, because that proof could be too easily obtained.

And oddly enough it's the info share bit that a lot of people in education are extremely concerned about for their students and their students' families privacy, never mind their own concerns.

Tonyaster*

I know it's hard to believe if you have no experience of a good private school,

Show me where I have said that, you can't stop making shit up.

but none of the girls at my dd's school would do that.

Quite probably.

In fact even trying to argue that they might suggests to me that you've been on Mumsnet too long.

Didn't argue it. Maybe you should read thing through properly.

Also none of them leave and go to state school because they are too disturbed to cope with private school. It just doesn't happen.

What absolute BS. It says to me that you should step outside of your bubble.

Schools have been closed and education has been suspended.

If they furlough the teachers who is going to be on for key workers?

cani lots of paid education websites are giving free access to their content during lockdown. Do you think they will have TV licence detector vans going around?

I’m not sure you can furlough public sector workers given that we are paid by the state anyway?

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross
Does that then go to then say and from September it will be the current ex-curriculum to be continued wherever your students left? No.

Does it even really mention September?
They have slightly changed the wording.

It only mentions this year exams.

It also states either there or elsewhere, no pressure, no new learning etc.

They can only give advice up until the end of the next term based on the current situation. Unfortunately, crystal balls don't exist and no-one can say for absolute for certain that schools will reopen as they normally would in September. Will parents even be informed about new school choices in time for September, never mind would those ever so important uniform shops or hairdressers be open?

That then applies more pressure to those who should be sitting exams next year.

How is hanging onto something no longer fit for purpose, be in the best interest of the children it is supposed to be the most beneficial from?

I'm really hoping this is happening behind the scenes and it will be introduced before schools officially open. Because I really don't see the benefit in hanging onto something for essentially some weird sentimental reason.

It benefits no-one at the moment and it never ever will.

Noble, of course, they don't have vans. They do have some power to apply to a court if they believe they have enough evidence etc. Unless all that is complete bollocks as well. Wouldn't really surprise me tbh.

And there is a possibility that someone from the Ed department accidentally leaks something to the Arts and Media Department who somehow accidentally makes it's way down the chain to them.

And as we all know from all the previous 'accidents' regardless of the company, we only find out when it's a bit too late. When that info has been accidentally leaked by some random very junior member of staff that shouldn't have had access in the first place. A bit too late for the teacher also forced into doing this and gets sacked later down the line for that minor transgression.

A lot of companies are offering extra freebies knowing we are at home and somethings are getting disrupted. It's fab publicity for them. People will remember this when it comes round to renewing things. And even then they really cannot afford to take the hit, they also really cannot afford to ignore it. Not only can the BBC not afford to run what they currently offer, how can they cover all the additional costs. The "stars' they are hiring will also want to be paid as will the crews etc.

If they furlough the teachers who is going to be on for key workers?

You wouldn't need to furlough all teachers - 10/20% of teachers could volunteer to remain in school for key worker/vulnerable children (on full pay with overtime if applicable).Then if schools re-open by July, the teachers who were furloughed in April/May/June could teach in schools throughout July and August - with a two week break for everyone at the beginning of September before the Autumn term starts. Meanwhile the teachers who volunteered in April/May/June would get their usual summer break.

If private schools stick to their usual schedule they could probably pick up the slack - accommodate some pupils and/or lend teachers to state schools. My dcs' school do that already.

@canigooutyet And let's be honest, regardless of which side we are on, it's very clear to see the current ex-curriculum and the educational system needed a massive overhaul anyway.

I agree that there are real problems with the curriculum - it changes regularly due to political whim and we are in the middle of (yet another) ‘overhaul’. I teach Secondary. Our GCSE courses changed relatively recently due to the 9-1 GCSEs and so have the KS3. We are in the middle of rewriting all of the schemes of work. Added to that, the Ofsted inspection framework had also just changed, hence the need to rewrite all of the schemes, together with a huge amount of work justifying why we have done that (Ofsted will expect all staff in all subjects to be able to talk about this too).

I know this is slightly off topic about why we are not filming lessons, I want get the point across that there is a lot that goes on ‘behind the scenes’ other than teaching and assessment / marking.

Many staff at my school have volunteered to go in during the Easter holiday to support vulnerable children, or Key workers’ children. Other staff are not allowed into school due to chronic health conditions. If you are not on the rota, you are not to go into school, even to do some marking, for example.

Furthermore, the teachers who continue to work from home: that is exactly what they are doing. As I mentioned, whole schemes of work have to be rewritten - we had no extra time to do this before, but now we do. We are spending time putting together resources that we always wanted to do but never had the time.

Many teachers also have other areas of responsibility, so will be working on those areas. We are also expected to justify anything we do by citing the latest pedagogical research. This all takes time. I have been trying to complete a professional qualification for whole school improvement and have struggled this year as I had no extra time in school to do this - this was hours of study each week I had to do in my own time even though it was on a project for school. For me, I am using this time at home to get all of this different aspects done, as well as replying to pupils, marking their work etc.

Please believe me when I say teachers are working from home (just as my husband, who works in IT, is also working from home).

Furloughing would be great, slightly less pay but zero work to do.

Why can I see people not being happy at teachers being paid to stay home and do literally nothing?

They do have some power to apply to a court if they believe they have enough evidence etc.

And they could easily not prosecute if the evidence was of using the educational materials during lockdown, yes?

Why can I see people not being happy at teachers being paid to stay home and do literally nothing?

If they give up the long summer break in return...