To be annoyed at note through door asking us to clap

[tainot]

Seriously, surely everyone knows about the clapping at this point and would do it if they wanted to/could?

I don't need a note through my door to make me feel crappy for not taking part. I thought at first it was a note asking if anyone needs assistance/shopping etc but nope, just a passive aggressive note thanking everyone for taking part and if those that haven't could join in this week. Eff that.

Don't get me wrong I applaud the NHS and keyworkers and have the upmost respect for them but I'm not clapping for my own practical reasons (getting baby to sleep is hard work, I'm not going to clap/bang pots just to wake them up again).

I'm not sure if it's my own attitude thats the problem or I'm rightly annoyed at people trying to guilt trip us into clapping. I don't need that, I've donated money and food in the last couple of weeks, I go out as little as possible (rarely), I'm doing my bit.

All this clapping is nonsense. Many NHS staff would rather people emailed their MP asking for a decent batch of PPE

I’ve said the exact same thing all along. Clapping is totally useless, they need PPE urgently.

The NHS is turning into a cult. Scary.

Next thing we’ll be getting on here will be the sensitive souls for whom clapping and banging is too much and asking us to do jazzy hands

I'm a key worker and also work nights, as do many of our NHS staff.

I would be fucked off if I was woken up by clapping when I'm getting ready for a nightshift (I sleep in the evening on first shift)

All the NHS and key workers that I know are either getting home from work, just starting work or in bed sleeping before they go to work at 8pm.

I would return it to her with a request for:-

1. A reference to the relevant government act which makes clapping for the NHS a legal requirement.

2. A copy of her official documentation giving her authorisation to contact people for failing to comply.

3. If she is unable to produce those two pieces of information could she please either contact the police if she has any evidence you are breaking the current law. If she is unable to do that could she please refrain from posting pointless pieces of paper through doors, thereby creating a possible viral transmission route.

4. You will consider any further communication on this matter, unless it answers 1,2 or 3, harassment, and will refer it to the police.

Then stick the line is about coheres clapping being meaningless.

Have fun.

Next thing we’ll be getting on here will be the sensitive souls for whom clapping and banging is too much and asking us to do jazzy hands

Don't be a twat. Luckily not many people have been making a noise in my area, but my eldest is suspected SPD and ASD. Do you know how unpleasant loud noises are for him, or how heartbreaking it is for me having to comfort him as he had to get under a table or chair to 'get away' from noises?

I'd not ask anyone to stop their clapping as it's a personal choice (social media shaming and notes through doors are absolutely crossing the line), but there will always be people who hate the noise, and they shouldn't be called out on that.

Someone on your street is an idiot and has unfortunately chosen this as the perfect time to inform everyone of this. Most of the street will be rolling their eyes with you.

The first clapping session was really touching; a spontaneous and genuine "thank you". It loses meaning in repetition and I suspect it's more about making the people doing the clapping feel good, something to do in a boring week and a feeling that they are 'doing something' when, of course, they really aren't. The people bullying others are using it as a virtue boost and something to focus their minds/ energy/ anger on.

In Solzhenitsyn's book The Gulag Archipelago, he writes about how, during an 11 minute standing ovation one of Stalin's speeches the first person to stop clapping was imprisoned for 10 years.

Not sure why but this order to clap has brought this to mind!

This

This kind of enforced applause can be found in toalitarian regimes and sinister cults throughout history.

People (wrongly IMO) accuse the police of being like the Nazis and the Stasi for stopping people driving to rural beauty spots and having barbeques in parks, yet seem less concerned about the clapping.

I have not participated in the clapping ritual and never will. It seems more appropriate to me to raise a fist express my horror at the causual use of terms like the "front line".

The front line actually meanscsomething like this:

"We expect you to risk your life and the lives of your loved ones and to treat highly contageous patients without suitable PPE and to keep your mouth shut. Have some applause you heroes you. Er, that's it!"

As other posters have pointed out some of the most enthusiastic clappers are the same people trangressing SD rules.

It is no surprise to me that someone attempting to coerce others into clapping is doing something as irresponsible and dangerous as putting a note through the door.

Forget clapping. This is what you do to support the NHS

Keep your distance, stay at least 2 metres from others not in your household.

Wash or sanitise your hands after touching surfaces that others have touched. Wash your hands often (ideally after touching anything potentially contaminated). So, for example, if your keys are in a leather key wallet, take them outcduring this crisis, when you enter your home, first thing you do (after removing outside shoes) is to wash your keys and hands together, then dry them all.

Outside shopping bags, rucksacks etc. rotate and quarantine. Anything that has touched outside surfaces needs to be quarantined (put in a bin bag if you have limited space) until it is either washed or 72 hours have passed. Most of us have a few bags, so you just rotate them.

Wash your hands and keep yourself and your home as clean as possible. This is extremely important because, if you do pick up the virus, good hygiene reduces virual load. Basically if you get the virus and spread it around onto your taps, door knobs, phone, bag, computer etc. it will multiply and contaminate your home. This is very bad. One of the things that effects whether people who have the virus will get sick, or if they get sick, whether the live or die, depends upon the amount of virus they take in (viral load). So even if you get the virus keeping your hands and home clean may help you to not get the disease and to stay alive.

Exercise like its going out of fashion. Train hard like you are going to fight in the ring with an opponent, because if you do get sick you will have a fight on your hands and fitness is one of the most important factors to beating the disease.

Don't put notes through people's doors

Stay indoors as much as you can bear to. It's not forever and new anti-viral drugs and vaccines are being developed all the time. If you can stay safe now you have a good chance of getting through this

Do you know who the note was from? An unsigned note reeks of cowardice and bullying tbh. If it's from Roy at no 36, or whatever, at least you know who you are dealing with and aren't worried that Sam at 34 is a passive aggressive note poster!

We clapped last week because it happens while my little one is just falling asleep and my big one is being read to, and obviously you can't fall asleep while it is happening. We took an 'if you can't beat them join them' approach to make the noise less intimidating to the kids. I'll email my mp today then I can feel smug come Thursday that I've done something for the NHS this week. The clapping isn't my way, especially as from our house you can't see anyone, just hear it.

“When gestures like this become coerced they loose all meaning.”

This sums it up so well.

Putting potentially infected bits of paper through people’s doors is equally as ironic.

Hood - I thought the viral load concept was still not yet fully understood or explained, it's not certain that increased viral load makes people more ill,, there seem to have been various studies with differing conclusions.

I’m NHS (AHP), fortunately I can do appointments through video call now. I found it terrifying going into the hospital up until that point though. We were running low on sanitiser, had increasing cases in the Covid ward, it’s bad. I can only imagine how scary it is for frontline staff.
The first clap was nice, many staff appreciated it but most I know feel like I do. If you want to support the NHS vote for a government that does not systematically underfund them and stay home. I live in a tory stronghold and find it a fucking piss take that so many locals are clapping and banging away on their doorstep after voting for this utter shit show of piss poor government support.
It’s just a way for the clappers to make themselves feel good.

That would make me less inclined to clap. What does it matter to them who claps? I have clapped twice but don’t care what anyone else does.

My baby has been woken up each time they've clapped here, banging pans, air horns the lot. I refuse to join in because no one who works for the NHS lives near us to hear it so it's just virtue signalling.

My neighbour banged on everyone door the first week.

He wanted everyone out so he could film the clapping for his ig page “as a photographer you can see how important it is to me”
I spoke to him through my ring doorbell. Twat.

Lots of us round here made headbands with buttons on for the nurses. Ears are getting very sore from the masks. Think they appreciate that more than a clap.

The word that keeps coming to mind is mawkish.

"Thankyou for clapping"!!! Who put them in charge!? That would piss me right off and I wouldnt clap.

Yanbu, some people are using this crisis as an excuse to let their instincts to police others run wild and it's not okay. Whoever did this to you is a big weirdo that needs to get a grip.

Sittinonthefloor

I am not a doctor or epidemiologist. Viral load is, I think, fairly well understood. I used to work attached to an epidemiology department working with HIV /AIDS in the 80s and 90s.

Of course this is a novel virus and there is still much we don't understand.

I can share my understanding of this from listening to various experts and from my own, provisional, understanding of the issue.

One of the reasons why young, healthy doctors and nurses are dying is because they are working with the most highly infectious patients and are involved in invasive procedures that place them at great risk of inhaling and otherwise coming into contact with significant amounts of the virus.

Various experts have said that this is the case and described the lack of PPE as an outrage because of the risk of high viral load to NHS staff.

A patient who is extremely ill and who is coughing up virus infected mucus presents more dangers to someone in close contact than someone who has the virus and has an irritating dry cough but is who is likely to be infectious but to a lesser extent.

There may be "super spreaders" of course and these people may shed more virus or there may be other causal factors to why they infect so many people. Everything is still very provisional, but I think we can draw some reasonable conclusions and act occordingly.

For example, in Italy when Covid-19 patients die their relatives are not allowed to see them prior to cremation / burial. An Italian doctor was on TV recently explaining that this is because very ill people cough all over their clothes and thus, even when dead, their clothes are highly contageous.

I am interested in transmission via clothing, partly because I live in sheltered accommodation where over 70 people share 3 washing machines. The UK government advice is to carry on using shared laundrettes because we have to keep our clothes clean and soap destroys the virus. A government expert was on TV recently advising people in communal areas to turn a door knob using their sleeve rather than their hand as" the virus does not live long on fabrics".

So is it the case that our government are lying to us about clothes? I think it is more likely that clothes can carry the virus but that the amount of virus is important. In an unclear situation where we all have a lot to learn it makes sense to me to assume the worst and hope for the best.

This means reducing our risk by following an impeccable hygiene regime and strict social distancing.

If, as I think is highly likely, the amount of the virus (viral load) at time of infection influences whether someone who contracts the virus does on to develop Covid-19, and if so whether they live of die, it makes complete sense to adhere to a hygeine regime and social distancing.

If, in the fullness of time, we discover that viral load is inconsequential (unlikely) then we have followed a hygiene regime and gotten sore dry hands for nothing.

I know which strategy I will be following :)

My understanding was that a higher viral load does appear to be linked to how much of the virus the person is shedding but the relationship between viral load and severity of illness is less clear . PPE & hand washing are clearly important regardless and it makes sense to assume that it is linked and to act accordingly. But I think we need to be careful not to present likelihoods / probabilities as facts.

I don’t participate. My best friend is a nurse in one of the big London hospitals on the convid ward.

While she appreciates the idea behind it and they love the photos of the children with the rainbow pictures and other gestures they would prefer that the people will lobby afterwards for

More and better equipment
More staff
Better pay
Less red tape
A lot less politics

My mum and step mum work for the NHS... none of us clap as it is fucking ridiculous and a waste of time. Seems the Tory voters are the ones making the most fuss about it ironically! Maybe if you care so much about the NHS and their staff you should vote for a party who will fund it adequately? Or go and volunteer. Anything really would be more useful really than this clapping bollocks.

My understanding was that a higher viral load does appear to be linked to how much of the virus the person is shedding but the relationship between viral load and severity of illness is less clear.

I watch a lot of videos and listen to a lot of radio on this issue, as I said I am not a doctor or epidemiologist. I either heard or saw an expert reassuring an alarmed person about death rates of the apparently young and healthy doctors and nurses. The "reassurance" was that clinical staff are at much greater risk because of very obvious issues relating to being in close contact with highly infectious patients, having to do invasive proceedures on them while they coughed virus and that that risk to their health was linked to increased viral load.

While this was reassuring to the caller it is not very reassuring for NHS staff.

PPE & hand washing are clearly important regardless and it makes sense to assume that it is linked and to act accordingly. But I think we need to be careful not to present likelihoods / probabilities as facts.

Agreed.

This is a novel virus and there are lots of "reassuring" statements flying around that, if looked at in a diffeernt way are deeply alarming.

"There is no evidence to suggest" does not mean "it will never happen".

It is sensible and prudent to assume that, as various experts have opnied, increased viral load is a significant causal factor in severity of Covid-19

It may not be the case at the end of the day. There may be many mysterious causal factors we are not yet aware of. Until such time that we have a fuller understanding surely it makes sense to operate under the assumption that viral load is significant, especially as various authorities are stating that this is the case?

One thing I hope we can both agree on is that the urgent provision of PPE to NHS staff, police, prison officers and any public servants is extremely important. The fact that we expect doctors, nurses and ancilliary staff to attend to patients without PPE is an outrage.

The fact that my local police are providing support and help to local street homeless addicts (some of whom currently have continual dry coughs) with no PPE is an outrage.

Clapping will not help any of this. The provision of PPE and mass testing is essential for ending this horrifying situation.