AIBU to think Angela Rayners comments are very unhelpful?

[Smileyaxolotl1]

Angela Rayner has said today that it is unreasonable of Matt Hancock to say people shouldn’t sunbathe in parks etc as some people live in flats/ don’t have any outside space.
While I’m sure it is very hard for those in this position, I think her blatant attempt To undermine the guidelines and turn it into a class issue is unhelpful and encourages people to gather outside in public areas directly contravening guidelines.

smile is it one of the reasons to leave your house?
No? Then by default it is banned. It also doesn’t specifically say that you can’t hire a carnival float and drive it up the road- doesn’t mean it’s within the guidelines. It’s people like you thinking that rules don’t apply to them who will cause a lockdown.

I'm against looking for loopholes and stretching the law,

but I am worried that we keep seeing new "rules" / "advice" all the time - not laws - which disproportionately affect those who are already disadvantaged

e.g. those who
cannot afford to stock up for a month in advance
don't have transport so must physically carry their shopping home every couple of days
don't have a big leafy garden or rural surroundings
etc

What breaks the rules imo are e.g.

people going out just to buy an ice cream / paper / lottery ticket etc
or walking the dog - not loo trips - for miles 3 times per day
or MAMALs on their 50 km bike rides
or driving miles to a beauty spot
or visiting other households

bigchocfrenzy but your opinion is irrelevant here. The guidelines are very clear.

Without in any way sniping: one thought that has occurred to me and DH over the last few days is that when this is over one of many changes that may occur is that people may reevaluate their decisions to live closer to the capital and move further out, where they will get more space and possibly/ probably a garden for their money. Gardens are far less a privilege and normal for the majority once you’re outside London.

On a lighthearted note, if that’s allowed, it has also occurred to me over the last few days that the NHS have been flogging the take more exercise message to death with little effect for years. As soon as you tell people their exercise is a privilege and may be removed, everyone is an exercise fiend! Go figure.

smiletho yes I do.
I do have a garden though but I lived in a flat
For many years and I wouldn’t have ignored the guidelines if I still did. It would have been crap I’m sure but I think the good of the country and getting this sorted is more important than individual discomfort.

Many people think it's essential to walk their dogs for miles each day. And that is actually exercise, to be fair. Unlike picnics and sunbathing.

She really doesn’t help herself with her baby mama act. Not sure whether it’s a deliberate attempt to grab column inches or whether she really is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

It's disablism too, not just pissing on the disadvantaged

Many elderly or disabled people - or less fit - people have to sit down for half an hour if they go out somewhere, before they can walk home

I completely understand them wanting to stop groups of people sunbathing together
or individuals sunbathing for hours
That's abusing the privilege

However, 30 minutes of sun sitting down, out of their 60 minutes outside the house

• has a doctor said this is a bad idea ? If you can't walk the whole time, you can't go out ?

Or is it just a politician
Or Mumsnet ?

I'm on the fence.
I have 2 small children and a garden with a trampoline, basketball hoop and enough space to kick a ball around. They are out there all day long and I can sit out and supervise with a cup of tea. Lockdown would be A LOT harder if I didn't have this space. I don't have it in me to critise someone sitting in the park while their kids have a run around or who just wants to relax outside for a while as long as its not busy and distancing is observed. Maybe they should have limit on how many people can be in the park like they do in supermarkets atm.

no you can’t.
If they can’t walk that far without sitting down then Unfortunately you will have to make your walk shorter.

That's just ridiculous.

I went for a dog walk today with my husband. We did sit down on a bench at one point. Didn't realise that would be problematic as we were well away from anyone else.

Well, actually, I knew some people on MN would have a massive issue with it but common sense told me that I was not putting anyone at risk for sitting down for 5 minutes on my daily walk.

OP - all very well for you to say you've lived in flats but now have a garden and "getting thus sorted is worth any individual discomfort". YOU are not the one that would have to suffer this discomfort so kindly take a seat.

smile yes I have and how am I out of order.
Bcf stated what the rules were in her opinion. You can’t have an opinion on what they are. Only what you think of them - they are factual.
Please practise your reading comprehension before getting defensive.
And once again as it’s clearly impossible for you to understand- sunbathing is not exercising.

I do take her point. Even Mr Tumble couldn’t sit weeks and weeks in a flat and not go insane and add entertaining children into the mix as well. It’s very easy for those of us with huge gardens to smugly sit in judgement.

The German approach sounds very sensible, bigchoc. Somebody who can’t walk far shouldn’t be stopped from getting fresh air while others are allowed to run or walk for an hour.

two but they will have to suffer a lot more discomfort if they can’t go out at all which is what will happen if people keep sitting down and hanging out in parks etc.

bigchocfrenzy Germany are doing very well with the virus (possibly the best in Europe)
Totally think that the government should learn from them and I’m not even saying that our guidelines are correct just that we should be following them and that politicians should not be suggesting that they are ignored.
I really don’t see how anyone can disagree with that as it’s just a slippery slope otherwise.

I don’t think encouraging people to do their own thing is helpful. Because if they can make up the rules/Are told they are the exception to this part of the guidance then why can’t we all do it with any other part of the guidance that we find difficult or feel affects us more profoundly than others?

Giving people discretion on one issue often leads to “drift” on that issue and into others.

The rules are clear. Going for a walk or run or cycle round your local area or to a park is fine. Once per day. I suppose a quick 5/10minute sit on the grass to catch your breath is probably fine. Sunbathing all afternoon or having a picnic with your family in the park? Not ok, even if practising social distancing. If the parks or beach or whatever become crowded by everyone hanging around it makes it harder for everyone to get out.

That is not to say that I do not recognise that if you have no outside space it is much more difficult than for those with a garden. It must be really hard. But nobody is saying that you can’t go out to the park, just that you can’t sit around sunbathing and so on.

There are lots of things that disproportionately affect some people. The rural working class/low income families may well have access to more open space but have different challenges (lack of access to public services, higher transport costs/public transport for e.g.).

There often seems far too much concentration on our individual rights and entitlements but much less concern when it comes to individual and collective responsibilities. Though I think this about life in general iand worsening as times goes on- and is true across income levels and social class- but that’s just my view.

Well said jacks11

And just to be clear to those determined to label me as some bitch in an ivory tower my issue is with Angela Rayner encouraging breaking the guidelines, not with people finding themselves in a difficult situation, especially those with children.

She's right, this is definitely an issue.

Why, exactly, is it okay for fit young me to run laps around a large park for half an hour, but not okay for my older neighbour with a gammy hip to alternate short periods of walking with sitting down for half an hour?

Why the hell should my neighbour be obliged to go home after two minutes, just because that is how long she can walk before she needs a rest?

The "they" you refer to OP is me and my family. Small DC in an inner city flat. FWIW, we don't sit in parks when we go out but the daily walk / exercise in parks is critical as you rightly assume it would be.

Your post upset me so much because you self-righteously set out what you'd do in my circumstances.

To do this you had to assume that you know what my kids and I are going through, which I assume you do not. You can imagine (from your garden) I'm sure. But you are not facing the day-to-day reality of an indefinite lock down with rambunctious kids climbing the walls of a small inner city flat. Good for you. But don't tell those of us who are facing that what you think you'd do in our shoes.