...to think that if your child is a bully then you’re a shit parent?

[Calladia]

AIBU?

I have asked for help on this thread too unlimiteddilutingjuice none was forthcoming unfortunately.

@PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock

One child not wanting to play with another is not bullying. Even going off with a new best friend is not bullying.

I'm rather surprised school staff are too stupid to not realise this. Bullying is repeated attempts targeted at the same person to make them feel upset or threatened.

I can see exactly what you mean cadallia I have casually observed a child who was a bully and once his bulling went from just being 'bossy' I attempted to discuss his behaviour politely to his mum who used phrases like 'alpha male, leader, future prime minister'. I could see aspects of his behaviour in her so I realised that assisting my own child how to deal with him was the best option and occasionally would say something to the school, this was usually met with a deaf ear as they were also at a loss as to how to deal with both. So, yes simply put I can see that they are generally poor parents, it's funny how some responses are placing the bully as the victim without thought for the many other kids from the class who may now have low self esteem... therefore teaching the bully early that their behaviour is unacceptable may save dozens of other children from the trauma in the future.

future prime minister

Some parents really are deluded twats aren't they?

My own experience has led me to blame the school more than the parents. I know I'll get someone whinging about "teacher bashing" but my school was a very toxic environment and the teachers didn't really do much.

As a parent you can do all you can to raise a good person but when they are spending most of their time in a bad place where bullying is just normal and the responsible adults turn a blind eye that's going to affect you. I hate the thought of sending my child to a large, impersonal secondary school.

I think the issue with providing advice is that most of us haven't dealt with having a child who bullies. Most of us are on the other side of the coin. The strategies that we used to raise our dc not to be bullies were either just the way we were as parents or were things we did with toddlers.

It might be more useful to start a thread for support rather than asking here where most posters have been bullied or their child has.

For myself, I suppose it would be always encouraging them to think how others might feel and expressing proper committed disapproval every single time. Strong consistency and using every learning opportunity. Make them proud and full of self esteem for being kind and friendly rather than craving power and attention. Celebrate difference and help them to understand why it's good not to be a sheep and follow others. Be brave not unkind.

I'd recommend watching the most recent Born to be Different and seeing the effect that bullying had on Zoe.

For myself, I suppose it would be always encouraging them to think how others might feel and expressing proper committed disapproval every single time. Strong consistency and using every learning opportunity. Make them proud and full of self esteem for being kind and friendly rather than craving power and attention. Celebrate difference and help them to understand why it's good not to be a sheep and follow others. Be brave not unkind

Thank you for your thoughts WaxonFeckOff I already do much of this.
As I say, she has no opportunity to mix with other children at present so the bullying isn't currently a problem.
I will certainly bear all your comments in mind when she starts school. Its something in her personality which i feel i will always need to be mindful of and to correct as we go.
Its certainly been very sobering to read about what her long term effect on other children may be.

For myself, I suppose it would be always encouraging them to think how others might feel and expressing proper committed disapproval every single time. Strong consistency and using every learning opportunity. Make them proud and full of self esteem for being kind and friendly rather than craving power and attention. Celebrate difference and help them to understand why it's good not to be a sheep and follow others. Be brave not unkind.

Absolutely love this.... I've highlighted it WaxOnFeckOff and hopefully many parents will get to see it and follow what you have written.

I've been thinking about your comment about how you would have cancelled a birthday party for suggesting certain children be excluded from it.
I think this would be an appropriate sanction for a seventh of eighth birthday party. As it was a fouth birthday party, I'm happy with my response of firmly explaining that we invite everyone.
Im still hopeful she will grow out of it if gently and frirmly corrected each time it happens.
I will be keeping a close eye on her friendships at primary school and checking in with other parents.

She may not be with other children at the moment, but respect and kindness begins in the home. Make sure she is showing that to you as well. Watch some programs or movies that might help. Can't really recommend as not sure what is out now and can't remember what we used to watch.

You could also role play with dolls and soft toys.

Thank you for your kind comments on my post. Despite Ds1 being bullied, I've come across some really nice kids over the years. In the main, their parents were pretty nice too but they were never weak pushovers either.

She may not be with other children at the moment, but respect and kindness begins in the home. Make sure she is showing that to you as well

Thank you thats very good advice. Its tempting to let things slide under lock down conditions but I will try to hold boundaries.

Thank you again for all your help and comments.

Also thinking about the brithday party thing. The shocking comments about people she's like to exclude weren't repeated more recently when we were plannign her 5th. So perhaps she's already beginning to learn empathy.
I will not let up though. I'll keep a really close eye.
Thank you again for all your help.

@Moomin8 X was upset repeatedly and named DD as the cause of her upset. I can see how it looked to them, the only reason they didn't come down on it heavy handed on it it's because DD is a shy,quiet child(something repeated in all her school reports ).

@WaxOnFeckOff

Thank you.

It honestly shocked me when I read it. I couldn't give a shit if my reply sounded nasty / harsh - I stand by it. I just hope @unlimiteddilutingjuice takes it on board.

I should also add my DD, 10. ended up having constant panic attacks and became quite ill from being bullied and left out by "friends" between the age of 6 and 9/10. It pretty much ruined her primary experience. Bullying was endemic at the shitty school she was at and their way of "dealing" with it was about "building resilience" and sympathising with the bullies

We eventually moved house and moved her to a new school last year.
and now she is finally having a decent time and has made lovely friends - (shame she will probably miss the rest of y6 due to bloody corona).

@coffeeeandtv

"Future prime minister" "alpha" 😂

Good god what absolute deluded twats some "parents" are 😳😱😱

The flip side is that I'm not sure I like how frequently friendship issues get conflated with bullying. There is some overlap obviously but if person A wants to be person Bs friend and person B isn't interested it's wrong to call that bullying. Depending on the ages it may be that an adult needs to step in and guide them through this but labelling it bullying doesn't help. You can't push someone into being your friend by crying bullying.

Before i had my own child I would have agreed with you. Since I had him, i've come to realise that so much of what is unique about him is there despite and not because of me - good and bad. So what to me was previously a very clearcut thing, has become very muddied . . . my unhelpful answer is, I don't know :) I don't think it's as cut and dried as your original statement tries to make it . . . if only it were, it would make things much simpler. But the truth is, it isn't.

@coffeeeandtv I know exactly the parent you mean.

I actually go out of my way with the kids I work with, to praise the quieter ones quite lavishly sometimes, and pick things out that they’ve done that are kind or considerate instead of impressive skill wise. Sometimes the ‘alpha’ kids sit there completely agog wondering what’s going on.

On the flip side though, there are some kids who are confident, bright AND kind and good friends so the ‘leaders’ in the group aren’t always little a holes

Probably in the majority of cases, it wouldn't be surprising.

Ok WaxOnFeckOff I think the issue with us has probably been consistency. My mum/dp have talked me out of punishing him sometimes and I question myself a lot. My mum is a lovely person, but a pushover (with everyone else but me). One of her main parenting ideas seems to be that younger children have to learn to be easygoing as older siblings are naturally going to walk all over them .

Come to think about it I have a sibling who bullied me relentlessly growing up so maybe I shouldn't listen to her. At least with Covid-19 I have a chance to be more consistent as it's just me (dp is a key worker).

Also if she has picked him up from nursery and something happened she wouldn't tell me unless I specifically asked, or downplay it if I did.

DianneWhatcock she clearly is taking it onboard. Why feel the need to rub salt in?