to not understand what Sue Perkins is referring to?

[avrilpoissons]

"I see Britain’s third best eugenicist has been using the crayons again...."

WTF is she on about? It's obviously something super intelligent but it's beyond me.

Is Toby Young the one who didn’t get the grades for Oxford until his dad rang them up and begged them to let him in?

His comments are shocking as we should value the lives of our citizens over the concerns of big businesses

What’s “shocking” is that you have so misunderstood the points he’s made that you feel justified in making this remark.

Read his article again.

But to try and suggest that journalists like Toby Young are not even allowed to question the governments stance is outrageous. Freedom of thought & expression matters to some of us, if not to you.

Can you point out who has suggested journalists/Toby Young are not even allowed to question the governments stance? He's given his opinion, and people have given theirs. It seems to me the reverse is true, people on this thread are annoyed by others disagreeing with Toby Young.

The childish ad hominems are evidence enough, Sharona.

Unless you think “I will laugh if he dies with it” is intelligent debate.

I've wondered for a while, I am glad lots of people are questioning the measures, as a democratic society it's what should be happening.

There is the old saying the cure can often be worse than the disease, with the economic and social impacts of lockdown of people's mental state long after the virus has been and gone.

The 'experts' lwho have been doing the modeling like kings college have been so out in figures in the past outbreaks there potential figures cannot be relied on eithier better or worse.

I am no way saying lockdown needs cancelling, but blindly accepting the government knows best is flawed also.

I am no way saying lockdown needs cancelling, but blindly accepting the government knows best is flawed also

Exactly.

But to try and suggest that journalists like Toby Young

I thought he was a commentator ?, a journalist has qualifications and knows how to do shorthand and shit like that

@Forza14 no I wouldn't say anything like that, but if he has said we shouldn't be preventing the deaths of elderly people, then I expect he is broad shouldered enough to expect that some will say he should die with it. (I would never say that myself).

The 'experts' lwho have been doing the modeling like kings college have been so out in figures in the past outbreaks there potential figures cannot be relied on eithier better or worse.

Yeah, I reckon Debbie off Facebook is definitely going to be proven right at some point in the post Covid outbreak future, if we still have her as friend, so we can buy her overpriced mascara or aloe vera stuff

How does he know he's got it?
He knows he is in bed feeling very unwell, but he is not in hospital so surely he has not been tested?

@Forza14
They may have died WITH it rather than OF it, and no actual distinction is being made.

This is the thing that is crazy how many of these people would have died normally or of other things, the figures aren't accurate, look at the 21 year old who was widely reported as dieing of it because she had a cough, turned out she didn't.

An estimated 228 million people have malaria each year to put numbers into perspective.

I keep saying this for context, but 250,000 people in the UK died from flu, despite us having vaccinations

That's false.

UK flu deaths are about are about 17,000

So get your facts right

So his "actually, I've got the virus" talk might be utter bullshit - he could be bedridden with man flu for all he or anyone else knows. If his "question everything" critical thinking skills are so much higher than the rest of us mortals he should be less quick to jump to conclusions. "Symptoms" could mean Covid 19, or they could be something else. Part of the problem with the virus is that the mild symptoms can be similar to other viruses and respiratory problems.

Just saw that only 7% of people are surviving coronavirus in the UK. 93% die of it. That's scary. Are figures similar for flu?

Critical thinking does seem in short supply on many mumsnet threads about covid19

Absolutely.
Not to mention the fact that so many of the threads and 'opinions' will be having a far bigger detrimental effect on the mental health of many who just cannot look away.

It's almost like Covid-19 is the event some have spent their whole lives waiting for

Toby Young is a eugenicist and self styled provocateur. His "few hundred thousand elderly people" fits none of the modelling, or the experience we have had to date. We have seen young people die, with health conditions that could have been managed well for years, and without. We have seen older people die, of working age, retired and volunteering, or aiming to spend their last years in peace. we have been told repeatedly by healthcare leaders, and by healthcare monitoring organisations, that to let the virus rip means an absolute breakdown in health and social care. I suggest that anyone entertaining for a moment the gleeful fascistic musings of this tosspot consider whether that breakdown would inconvenience them more than social distancing. We are talking societal breakdown here, not “oh you haven’t got a ventilator for me, never mind, I took the risks with my eyes open”.

Yeah, I reckon Debbie off Facebook is definitely going to be proven right at some point in the post Covid outbreak future, if we still have her as friend, so we can buy her overpriced mascara or aloe vera stuff grin

Because people question they listen to facebook. 🤔 I'm not sure if you have looked at anything anyone has typed

Have you looked at the past predictions that were made about diseases in the past 20 years the predictions a lot of the time were way out.

Half a million to die from CJD in predictions the total was less than 200 people.

Because he is 'Special' Squishy , this cannot be a normal run of the mill winter/spring cold , it must be the 'plague of ages' afflicting him.

The question I would be asking if I were him, is why is the mortality rate so high for men ? Is it because they are doomed by DNA or is it because they take to their beds ?

< disclaimer - I do not wish Tobes any ill and I sincerely hope he makes a full recovery, I might disagree with just about everything he says, but the world would be a duller place without his knobbish, outlandish outpourings, paracetamol, fluids and get up more often than just for a pee, you miserable Bastard ! >

Without wanting to sound all idealistic about this - but surely we need to rebuild after - and look at the society we have - so we spend wisely, invest wisely and tackle the unemployment etc that will come afterwards - the after effects of this virus need to be thought about now - and the one thing Toby has forgotten is that this a worldwide event with worldwide ramifications.

We are a global society

Just saw that only 7% of people are surviving coronavirus in the UK. 93% die of it. That's scary. Are figures similar for flu
Whaaaat ?!!

@CJsGoldfish
It's almost like Covid-19 is the event some have spent their whole lives waiting for confused

Absolutely, if you read some of the extinction rebellion and climate threads there is a certain amount of people who are obsessed with it all going to rack and ruin.

Sorry, think the link I saw referred to closed cases, not active cases (i.e. out of 1.924 cases, 1,789 died, 135 (7%) survived). Should have looked at total cases including active cases. My bad!

Think we need to bring this thread up in a few years time when GDP is off by 20% and a lot of posters on here have had their hopes and dreams, as well as their DC's hopes and dreams shattered due to them being destitute.

tttigress what do you mean ? can you explain ? Do you think we should just let this virus run its course ? regardless ? or do you think there are other experts we should be taking note of ?

Think we need to bring this thread up in a few years time when GDP is off by 20% and a lot of posters on here have had their hopes and dreams, as well as their DC's hopes and dreams shattered due to them being destitute

We don't know what the alternative of doing nothing would have looked like.

We do know that steps are needed now to ensure that we can make a better future with what we have now.

We just need to get the economy circulating again - and hopefully many things about our society will change.