To ask if you earn £50K+ what do you do?

[Poppi89]

I have seen a lot of posts on here where people say how much they earn and I am shocked how many people earn over £50K, so I was just wondering what it is that you do?

Also, do you think it is more important to have a high income or a job that you enjoy?

The railways are heavily unionised so there's no fear of women being paid less for the role. It just couldn't happen in front line roles. Office jobs maybe, I don't know enough about them.

I think what puts women off train driving are the simple fact that it IS male dominated, a lack of understanding of what the role entails (very little in depth mechanical knowledge these days) and therefore a feeling that they couldn't do the job, and the hours. I'm not privy to the application stats but there is a marked increase in the number of women coming through, although we are still a single figure percentage of the workforce. It's a shame, it's one of the few well paying jobs out there which requires only a very basic education level; the rest of the application is competence/aptitude based. Admittedly there is fierce competition for a job so perhaps there's also an element of women doubting their skills while men over estimate them. It also has good terms and conditions, a great pension scheme and potential for advancement should you so desire. One thing I have wondered is about recruitment bias, and how the aptitude tests may have inherent gender bias, along with the fact that there is a face to face interview and given the proportion of white middle aged men in the industry, the panel is almost certainly going to be made up of them.

We run a small Management Consultancy firm. No one is paid less than £50k pro rata - not even the support staff. Our Contractors get paid from £1000 a day up to £2000 if they are really specialist and well known in their field, we currently employ men and women at this rate - we are particularly keen to employ woman but they are harder to find at this level, our clients prefer and value a balanced team, so having more women on board improves our chances of winning work. Salaried staff get paid less than contracted staff but but are still well looked after.
The work is varied and interesting most of the time - occasionally when it's reading and reviewing a long technical document, it's boring as hell, but thankfully that's rare.

Not acknowledging the role of luck in ending up in high paid work is simple arrogance. Talent is found in abundance while hard work matters a lot but only up to a point.

@sst1234 maybe luck plays a small part in some cases...

I'm trying to think of any ways in which I was "luckier" than any of my high school friends who all ended up with various levels of "average" jobs (office admin, a carer, a hairdresser, a pharmacy technician etc).

I dunno 🤷🏻‍♀️ I grew up in a single parent household, mum was on benefits and certainly didn't encourage me to push myself. Lots of my friends were luckier than me in that regard. Some had parents who were teachers / had gone to uni. I didn't.

I just knew I wanted money when I grew up, so I was usually the one who concentrated instead of fannying around like a lot of my friends.

Also in those job roles listed above many of them fucked around in college before actually settling on what they wanted to do.

Maybe I was lucky in that I decided at 14 I wanted to be an engineer and stuck with it? Is that luck to be driven?

We all work the same hours per week so we all work as hard as each other... but there was a significant amount of time where I was studying full time and working night shift.

I switched careers again and also ended up on over £50k. Started that from scratch. Not really any luck involved there. Just hard work, drive, and determination. What I do now has no barrier to entry - you can get started for free. No degree, no courses. I'm in a group with 20 other people and the ones who make money are the ones who consistently turn up, get their arse in the chair, and put the hours in. There may be some talent and a little luck involved but the main factor is certainly hard work.

Your earlier post seemed to say that luck was the most important thing. That hasn't mean my experience in the 10 years since I left high school at 16.

Luck? Of course luck plays a part, a huge part along with hard work but knowing, feeling that the hard work would be recognised and rewarded goes a long way.
All my siblings are wealthy - my parents were not - we had a pretty rough upbringing - no one knew, it was well hidden but somehow we were all lucky enough to get through it and achieve - we’ve been very fortunate indeed.

What’s that saying - the harder I work the luckier I get...

That saying doesn’t seem to apply to those children working in garment factories abroad. Maybe they aren’t working hard enough yet.

There's also something about anticipating the needs of mgt. Giving them the answers they need to make a decision. My staff who will one day lead a team are the people who give me all the info i need to make a decision, concisely. Or with the letter/report drafted and accompanying facts attached.

The children working in garment factories must feel luckier than the children who don’t have jobs or school and no food in their bellies. But I agree that hard work alone does not make you successful - you have to be dealt the right hand of cards to begin with. And I think this can’t be said often enough.

@Bluejuicyapple "pay peanuts you get monkeys" how incredibly offensive to the millions of low paid workers. Are they all monkeys to you? Does that include all those keeping out country going at the moment?

The HCP who will try to save your life if you get CV, the supermarket workers who are feeding you, the delivery drivers serving is all.

I'm speechless at your crass explanation and your thoughtless choice of words.

I too will be cancelling my DD to the 8 charities that we donate to this morning, and looking much more closely at who I donate to in future.

The luck vs hard work has always interested me.

I appreciate I was lucky to be born in the uk, where most kids have access to some level of education. Not forced to be a child worker. I live nearish a city so work has always been available. I have had good managers who have acted as good mentors and helped my career. I am lucky, I have have developed a really good sense of peoples moods, atmospheres of rooms and can (usually) get a sense of someones personality quite quickly, which helps me form what I want to say and how to say it. I can compartmentalise well, which helps me focus, on the task at hand. I am lucky I was head hunted for my current role, which gave me a big pay rise.

On the other hand. Theres been alot of things I have had to overcome. I was born female and bi racial, which impacts careers. My family, definitly discouraged woman from having a decent education or career. It's still a point of contention in the family, that I have kids and work. My mum has severe mental health issues and prone to violent outbursts. I was her carer when younger. That's how I have learned to read people, moods and atmospheres. Also how I learned to compartmentalise. I have dyslexia, so school wasnt easy.

Uni fees came in the year before I was due to start, I decided not to go. My brother went and was given a grant, a few years before. I didnt want the debt.

It wasnt luck, that I pursued the managers offering support, to make sure I used that to my own advantages. The same offer was open to many of my colleagues, who didnt take advantage of it. I was told early on, by one of these managers to always think of my CV when moving jobs or taking on additional responsibilities. Again, this was all available to others, but many didnt take it.

So I always think of what something is bringing to my CV, when looking to move jobs or roles. What will it add. I have had my CV online for years, always kept it updated, tweaked it every few months. Did courses in my spare time, signed up for any additional training, to improve my CV.

I have always been careful at work about making sure I go the extra mile, but not to the point people think I am a general dogs body. Growing up with mum, I learned that saying no is sometimes required.

All that eventually paid off and I was head hunted. 20 years after I started work.

I do believe theres been some luck along the way. I also believe, it's been a lot of hard work. I couldnt guess what the balance is. Was it luck that mum was ill, but it taught me skills I use in my work life everyday? Or was I unlucky, to have family that was chaotic.

I genuinely dont know what the balance is. I cant say it's mainly one or the other.

Regarding the luck vs hard work argument...

I think there are always elements of both. I was lucky to be born to parents who were supportive. I was lucky to be "good at school". But if I look at people I grew up with who had similar environments and are on NMW jobs.. I always took lots of risks. I moved to London at 18, I've worked since I was 14, through uni when others were partying... I was working (I partied too.. I just did a shift at work first) it set me up so when I worked for a company I would always take on extra work and responsibilities and I progressed very quickly because I could cope with the large workload. If I didn't know how to do something I learnt it as fast as I could. I had the confidence to try things and take risks

My DH is a great example of hard work. I don't think he had many "lucky" factors. He was born into a very very poor party of London, he would be classed as growing up in poverty.. No father. No emphasis on education, he found school very difficult. And he is black so everything has been extra hard. He is now top of his field for one of the best companies in the world. No luck for him it has been non stop work. He's worked 16 hour days for the past 8 years - he only sleeps 4 hours a night. He has got to where he is by an enormous amount of hard work.

Everyone is different.

@Shitsgettingcrazy - your story is really inspiring ❤️

@peoplepleaser1 absolutely not. Never. It was in relation to the assumption that charities should not pay staff for their skills. It was regarding the poster who said they would stop contributing to a charity because the fundraisers were paid a fair wage for their skills and experience. The feeling that anyone who works for a charity should do it for a very low or no wage. It was to explain that in order to generate the kind of incomes some charities do generate you simply can’t get the people who do that for a volunteer or very low wage because of the skills required, the experience needed and the market out there. The person who is brilliant at raising money for the PTA or for a small charity is not the same as those who manage big teams and are responsible for millions and they need to be awarded appropriately. There is a feeling by many that this be done as a volunteer or for a minimal wage but it doesn’t recognise that if you need the skills you have to pay the market rate and that will often be higher than you’d often like.

It’s utterly unrelated to other roles which may be lower paid, it’s completely the assumption that skilled charity workers should do it from the goodness of their heart and not recognising that there is a skill and experience needed and to get that it needs to be financially rewarded.

Thank you for sharing your story @Shitsgettingcrazy, our reactions to adversity define us but how much control we have over them is a different thing and an area that has always fascinated me.

@doadeer thank you. But it does make me a bit embarrassed. I dont feel inspiring. Especially, when I am sat on my sofa in my pjs, trying to get logged on for work

It's just normal life to me. I only really think about how, I ended up where I did, when I see people debate luck vs hardwork.

My career really didnt come from education. I am not highly educated at all. I am envious of people that did go to university. I am not perfect. I have fucked up in my career as well.

My dp talks about this sometimes. He has always had, fairly low paid, but physically difficult jobs. Never worried about having a career. Just wanted a job to pay Bill's. But he has always liked that when he finishes work, he is finished. No having to work weekends, unless he wanted extra cash. No 12 hour days. Yesterday I logged on at 6am and was still fielding calls at 6.30pm.

When theres emergencies at work, I have had to log on at weekends, late at night.

He is quite happy doing what he does. I am quite happy doing what I do. Because I tend to work more hours, he picks up alot in the house. Which makes me feel bad, because , physically, he works harder.

But we appreciate eachother and recognise we both work hard, in different ways.

I often think the luck vs hardwork debate is used by people on both sides, to just talk down the other side. Which isnt great.

As a manager of a large team with entry level administrators. Eye for detail, going the extra mile, being pleasant, finding solutions extrapolates to progress. Pushing boundaries, doing the minimum and never checking, arguing for your rights when that right is lunch from 2pm to 3pm, arriving at 8.58 and having tea and toast, a wee and checking your phone then switching off at 4.59 so your toe is out of the door at 5pm and generally being difficult to manage whilst thinking you are God's gift and entitled to promotion extrapolates to an admin role forever and then to bitterness because you were overlooked.

The above have everything to do with attitude and self motivation and nothing to do with colour or sex or disability. Increasingly some of those with bad attitudes are using protected characteristics as a shield and it's utterly soul destroying. If I were to say your attitude stinks and your work's poor quality which is what people were told 40 years ago when that was the case, all sorts of allegations would be made.

It's really sad because it's making it very difficult to get the best out of people and to motivate the really hard workers. There is a crushing sense of entitlement beginning to prevail with no commitment at all and I am at a loss to know what the answer is.

our reactions to adversity define us but how much control we have over them is a different thing and an area that has always fascinated me.

Me too. I find human behaviour, in general, quite fascinating.

There are two theories of occupational choice/career development which focus on the role of luck and chance. They're widely accepted across the sector. They also place huge emphasis on the individual ( how they deal with chance and luck) and career management skills which include planning, resilience, research skills etc. They essentially state that 'luck is no accident'

The issue is that this isn't taught well in schools. So when it's suggested that luck or chance played a part in someone's success people can get defensive as if it suggests that it takes something away from their achievements.

No, that was a joke? I assumed Bart Simpson has wandered into the thread.

I work for a bank in their head office where there are very few people on less than £50k. Financial services salaries seem to be obscene. I am a qualified solicitor so managed to bag myself a few promotions quite quickly and now earn substantially more than if I had stayed in the legal world! I now earn just short of £100k and am based in Scotland so cost of living isn’t too bad. I do often think I am massively overpaid- I don’t even head a department and have no formal line management responsibilities!

“ it’s all down to luck “ is such a negative and disempowering message to give to our children.

“ Don’t bother working hard at school or choosing a career path that suits your personality and aspirations” because it’s all just the luck of the draw.

“ You might as well do the minimum at work because they will never hire/ promote anyone of your sex / colour / social class/ whatever “.

All that does is keep people in their place.

No one here is saying that hard work is all you need for anyone in the entire universe at any time in history to do well whatever their background and life circumstances.

No one here is saying it’s just as easy for mothers / people with disblities / care leavers etc to do just as well as white middle class men. But saying “it’s impossible so why try “ is so negative.

Working hard / getting good qualifications / experience / choosing the right job is necessary ( but perhaps not sufficient ) to get a well paid career here in the UK in the 21st century.

And certain choices you make alone the way will help or hinder your prospects.

it’s all down to luck “ is such a negative and disempowering message to give to our children.

Is anyone saying that though? I won't be teaching my children not to work hard & just rely on luck. Hard work is essential for most but that doesn't change the fact my dc are lucky & I want them to be aware of their privilege.

The thing is I never shone at school. Wasn't best at anything. Hopeless at sport, art, and hated the need to be like everyone else and avoid the bullies.

The people who absolutely shone at school on the whole became very pedestrian - live in the same town, wear the same clothes and look back on their school days as the best in their lives.

Those of us who might not have been the in crowd or praised by teachers broke away and did different things. I also saw the purpose of working hard at work but couldn't really see the purpose of memorising a map and edging it in blue pencil.

I think there's something about our education system that doesn't necessarily teach how to succeed at work.