Why is there so much hostility against teachers on MN?

[Bulb1976]

Is it jealousy? The daily teacher bashing threads on here are ridiculous.

Do you blame us for schools closing?

@duckyneedsaclean

Mine was in response to previous, not so understanding, posts from that poster

I think teachers have it hard but i find the majority (not all)...

Im a nurse and work to get kids back in school and some of the comments and concerns raised in meetings astound me. I truly have been gobsmacked that professionals could say and believe such things
Also..
With recent events.....several of nursing colleagues have been harranged to the point of coming to work in tears recently because of teachers. Schools are closing and not staying open.
My colleague last week has had to be withdrawn because her childs school has closed....she received daily and sometimes twice daily texts from the headteacher asking her to find alternate arrangements. Shes kept the texts and emails to raise it with the apropriate people later.

I do think some of the threads on here recently have been especially vitriolic- but I also do think that a lot of parents defend teachers on mumsnet too.

The one thing I would like to point out is that teachers don't always have much job security anymore. Often, every time you move a job, you'll be given a one year contract (even if the job is advertised as permanent) and in some cases, this is extended year on year, rather than made permanent, for a few years at least.

Yes, I am luckier than a lot of people, knowing I will be paid up until August 31st- but I've got no idea what will happen in September, and I could potentially be looking at months with no pay.

I also think that the way school closures were done gave teachers very limited time to prepare- if we had been given a week or two to get ourselves sorted, I think more schools would have better provision right now.

To be clear, I am laughing at the parents who think teaching is easy, that anyone can do it, that anyone can provide differentiated materials for thirty students because their little angels deserve individual attention...and then those parents find out that homeschooling 2 or 3 darlings is actually a bit challenging and not the walk on the park they expected.

This.

@Bulb1976 again with the snidey 'little darlings'.

A lot of people think my job is easy, they could do it better, and I spend all my time sitting down when I should be doing more. That doesn't mean I should laugh at them. Or certainly not publicly state it. If this situation meant that, for instance, care homes closed and people had to look after their grandparents at home, could you imagine nurses being gleeful that people found it was a bit harder than they thought?

The thing is most of the time 'little darlings' is used to refer to situations where a student repeatedly disrupts learning / is rude to staff / unpleasant and bullying towards other students / repeatedly ignores the rules and the parent insists their child didn't do it (often against multiple witnesses), their child doesn't have to do the sanctions, really it's other children who provoke their child into bullying, the teacher just hates their child. It's used generally in relation to the parent's attitude.

I've taught many a student like this and actually develop a soft spot for many of them, but in the eyes of their parents they are very much the "little darling" and their parent's attitude often hinders the child's education long term. It's much harder to help a child reach their potential when all through primary disruptive behaviour is excused as being spirited, their secondary DC didn't ignore instructions because "they were just [insert thing that was ignoring the instructions here ]", their DC doesn't have to do their homework, their DC doesn't have to do the detention, if their DC has been in trouble for their actions then parent calls school fuming about it and in MN angry style starts demanding meetings with the head because their child says they didn't do something that 30 others saw.

It's a minority or people, but it's amazing how apparently their DC is never responsible for their actions, never at fault, would never do anything like that at home and so on. It's quite funny hearing people who have that mentality suddenly finding that they have a teen at home at the moment who isn't as angelic as they've spent years telling school.

The losers of the "little darlings" are the students in the end.

Indeed @Duckyneedsaclean

"Little angels" "little darlings" "parents think it's so easy!"

It's very clear that you, a teacher @Bulb1976, have very little respect for the concerns of the parents of the "little angels" you're teaching. You've largely had a positive response to this thread but still being snidey about the kids you teach and their parents. Do you think they can't tell? We definitely can

Just be glad you aren't a health visitor they hate those even more!

I love teachers! I think you’re all fabulous.

I have to say MN isn’t representative of real life - there’s a lot of very bitter people on here who seem to criticise anyone and anything purely so they get their daily narcissistic boost.

It’s become especially toxic in the last few weeks.

I think the poster who said most people respect the position if not the person is very true.
I do respect teachers. I think they do a job which can be tough at times. I also think they are paid reasonably well. Most teachers I know are dedicated and bloody hard working. They want the best for their students. But there are some who whinge about all aspects of their job, make out it is the hardest job out there and generally have a pity party. However, I think that whatever job these types did, they would act the same, it’s not because they’re teachers iyswim.
Surely it’s the same in any profession; most of us get on with it but you’ll always have a few whingers in any profession.
Do you really not get paid for the holidays? My teacher friend earns 38k, which is pretty good if holidays are unpaid, isn’t it?

Just be glad you aren't a health visitor they hate those even more!

I have to say, whilst I have seen a couple of HV posts over the years, mainly people moaning about individuals, it doesn’t seem to be the same scale of moaning about schools and teachers as a whole-workshy, whiny, part timers etc

Social Workers is the only other group I’d say gets a similar amount of venom!

I have a lot of respect for teachers simply for the fact I couldn't imagine a worse job than being in charge of 30 children every weekday.

Speaking as someone who is neither profession myself, I'd say you are more likely to see negative comments about health visitors than teachers (when compared to the number of positive comments I mean - there are more comments about teachers in total so also more negative comments iyswim).

YgritteSnow I do hope you get the message. I support and work happily with those parents who expect their child to work hard and behave well in class.

LeMarais Teachers are contracted to work 190 days of term time plus 5 pd days. There's the "any reasonable preparation" clause as well which is why moat staff will be preparing and marking during the holidays.

£38k isn't a classroom teacher salary. It will be a post with additional leadership responsibility.

The way I put it to people is out contracts are a package and whether it's good or not depends on the person.
For example, there are some schools I wouldn't work in even if they gave me a £10k pay rise because it wouldn't be worth working in such a toxic environment. I could be paid more, but I like my current school and am happy with my work-life balance. Other people would hate working at my school because it's the norm for staff to offer enrichment beyond the school day. Different schools offer different things.

National Education Union
Employee rights in the independent sector:
Holiday -

"It is standard practice for teachers to be entitled to take all school holidays as paid annual leave, although your employer may reserve the right to require you to attend for one or two days in the holiday. The entitlement should be the same if you are a part-time teacher, although your pay will be no more than your weekly pay during term time."

neu.org.uk/advice/employee-rights-independent-sector

I think the answer to your question (and not necessarily my opinion) is that people get tired of the continued “we work harder than you do” line. It is divisive and puts people’s backs up, not least because it’s not always true, and quite honestly it invites people to challenge it. Likewise, as in any job there are effective and there are less effective practitioners, just as there are parents.

As an ex teacher I have found that there can be a real degree of both collectivism, and collective exceptionalism, the “us and them” attitude overall is extremely divisive but both parents and teachers are doubling down to defend their position. It creates an unhealthy cycle. This does not reflect all teachers, or all parents, in the same way that not all teachers patronise parents and not all parents are overly demanding. But unfortunately empty vessels make the most noise, and they tend to be the ones who are heard on places like MN.

Personally I think the most effective teaching takes place with a partnership between parents and teachers in which there is mutual respect for each other’s responsibilities and choices. Those of us who quietly work to achieving that are not the ones you will hear on MN.

Clavinova
National Education Union
Employee rights in the independent sector:

Highlighted the important bit for you.

Try again.

PS, you really need to get a life or a different hobby.

I think there are good teachers and bad teachers, like in any profession. I've encountered both types throughout my children going through school. I would never refer to them as a whole.

£38k isn't a classroom teacher salary. It will be a post with additional leadership responsibility.

Classroom teacher pay scales;
neu.org.uk/pay-scales-2019-20

The holidays thing is a non-point.
Teachers get paid their salaries in regular instalments all year round just like any other permanent employee.

Teachers do not spend the summer months living off air pie as far as I'm aware.

Often UPS staff have to take on leadership and coordination in order to get UPS. They shouldn't have to, but increasingly tasks allocated to UPS staff are things that would have previously had a TLR. Schools get round it by being creative with their interpretation of 'wider contribution'.
In many primary schools there's no TLR for subject leaders, for example.

FrippEnos
It wasn't going to be long before Clavi turned up. They love threads about teaching.
Give it time and they'll be on their pet subject of school holidays.

I never understand why teachers keep going on about holidays being unpaid as though that makes them hard done by. It just means you get £24k for only having to work 2/3rds of the year. I'd be keeping quiet about that if I was trying to make my case for being 'most put upon worker' tbh.

Wow Santa, do teachers where you are get over 17 weeks holiday a year? As that's what a third would be.

I do hope you get the message

I will if you could find it in yourself to stop referring to the children you teach, and their parents in such a dismissive and sneery way.